Commonman, I am a Christian and I know exactly what you are saying. It's not that Jesus is punishing us but rather we are living in a fallen sinful world and living among sinful people, this includes our own loved ones and brothers and sisters in Christ and ourselves as well. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, following Jesus does not change this principle of life here on fallen earth. What Jesus will do is see His children through unto eternal life where there will be no more sorrows and pain. He made many promisses to us, one of which states that He will not give us more burden than we can bear. We simply do want any burden, who does? We have to accept what we cannot change and trust Jesus will fix it all, if not in this life, certainly in the new Jerusalem.

Since you asked about Christians I will give you a Christian answer.....

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Ro 3)

"[Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."

It is not a matter of who is better for all have sinned. It is a matter of who has accepted God's propitiation through Jesus Christ and faith in that shed blood for the justification of their soul.

God's word warns us about trying to contact the dead. Have you ever heard of anyone having a good experience with this device? I don't give any majic or power to the board itself, however, if one wants to dable with the evil spirits one can expose themselves to their demonic powers. Actually, all people who have died are either in heaven or hell, there is no "limbo" or a past person trying to find their way. The "people" that mediators are speaking to are really demonic spirits who can take on the personallity of deceased people. So your really not speaking with whom you think you are. These are evil spirits trying to find a way into your life. Do not be fooled. I would have nothing to do with this ouegie board or trying to speak to any dead. You will only be opening up yourself for a living hell.

Have you ever noticed how the message through these mediators through the "dead" are always positive? How all the dead loved ones are doing fine in a wonderful place or trying to find that wonderful place. Truth is, not everyone has passed on to a wonderful place, this is the demons lies from the devil who wants us to believe that in general all people die and live happly ever after. Truth is, those who die without Jesus Christ are not in a happy place nor ever can be.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." (Eph 6)

You will not find the term "Trinity" nor will you read the expression "God the Son". These are phrases used by Christians to convey the truths that are discribed within the Word of God.

John 1:1-14 makes it crystal clear that Jesus, whom is called the "Word of God" is Eternal, is God and became flesh.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

"And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. (Rev 4:8) .........Jesus was, Jesus is, and Jesus is to come.

"(For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) (1John 1:2)

John had seen Jesus, that eternal life, which was with the Father.

There are just two many like scriptures to list here. Anyone willing to study the scriptures will easily see that Jesus Christ is God the Son. And will see that there are Three who bear record in heaven, and these Three are One.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isa 9:6)

I could fill pages with these proofs.

Yes, all mankind is my neighbour. Do you think anyone living today or anyone who ever lived would understand this if Jesus did not say it? Jesus, just another man??

What Jesus said and did is not the things an ordinary man would say or do. This is what makes Him so unique. No one in history ever preached unconditional love and displayed unconditional love as did this One man, Jesus. Folks may want to take a closer look at this man if you never have.

All modern translations are just that, translations of the thousands of original greek and hebrew manuscripts that have been preserved dating in range from 200AD-450AD.

The translation "nor abusers of themselves with mankind" is a phrase put together from the original manuscript which read "arsenokoit?s" (Greek).

"arsenokoit?s" is defined as follows; "1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual"

So to say the modern has added or changed anything is not true. The bible is translated from the original copies preserved from as far back as 200AD. we would not have any translations at all if it were not for these manuscripts.

Evolution is just another man-made religion. It actually takes a blind faith to believe in something that has no proofs. Tens of thousands of different species found throughout the world and not one fossil found in the fossil record that suggest any such Evolution of one species into another, Not one.

We have dinosour bones the Evolutionist say are hundreds of millions of years old, yet not one monkeyman skeleton found and they say "modern" man is only ten thousand years old. Now what is wrong with that theory? I always have to laugh when I see those "educational" programs on the dinosours when they say this dinosour lived 100 million years ago, not 101 or 99 million years ago, but we'll say 100! That's a good number, afterall, we need lots and lots of time because we cannot actually see the Evolution taking place. Blind faith.

If you guys are right, then you have nothing to fear. If Jesus is right, then those who reject Jesus as God's One and Only Son will not see eternal life, for the wrath of God remains upon them. I trust the testamony of Jesus Christ and His apostles as recorded for us in a history book backed by hundreds of prophecies come true. And you guys are trusting in what?? Your emotional feelings?? I will stay with the reality of the historical record and it's proofs through prophecy that it must be from God.

Be careful to label a doctrinal belief a lie when these beliefs come from a person's genuine reading of the word of God. I have great christian friends who believe it and I have great christan friends who do not. Calling it a lie does not edify. Try to understand each other's point of view. If you study the scriptures you will understand why some believe it to be true and they will give you plenty of proof text that do seem to say one is forvever secure once placed in Christ. And those who do not believe it will give you plenty of proof text which seem to say one can be placed in Christ and then removed.

I could easily go toe to toe and advocate from either side quoting scripture along the way. However, the bottom line for either view is the same, in the end if anyone be found in Christ they will be saved.

I have been there and done this debate for years. You will never settle this in this life time. Some believe they need the fear of losing salvation to keep them on the straight and narrow, others are very sound and secure in the promise of God to preserve them no matter what comes their way, even if self wants to destroy them.

Personally, I believe OSAS. After intensive study of myself verses the scriptures I have decided that without the power of Christ to keep me saved I will have to consider myself lost each and every day. Christ did not give me the spirit of fear, but the Spirit of adoption whereby I cry Abba Father. (Ro 8)

I have a question for you Bestway; Do you personally know for a fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Do you believe you are saved by grace through faith and this not of yourself? I trust your answers are "yes", then tell me how you can stop believing in that which you have absolute personal knowledge of is a truth?

Christians never killed anyone for blasphemy. There were children of the devil who claimed to be Christians who killed for blasphemy. This world needs educated on the bible and particularly on the fact that just calling yourself a Christian does not make you one. The bible teaches this through and through. The crusaders killed in the name of Christ, this does not make them Christian. The KKK spews out hate and have killed in the name of Christ, they are not true Christians.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

The crusaders would say to Jesus that they were doing wonderful works by ridding the land of unbelievers. They be wrong and if they would have truly had the Spirit of Christ they would not have been murderers.