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    He's out of jail....

    My 24 year old son was released from jail on 12/18, after nearly 21 months in four different jails. Probation in all 4, fines and restitution, classes and NA meetings to attend.  He's getting rides from brothers and me for meetings.  
    I hate to admit it, and this is the place I feel safest doing so, even if I get flack, but I don't believe he is going to be out of trouble for one month.
    Yesterday afternoon, he got a ride from a "friend" who picked him up at my mom's.  I've heard from him, but have no idea who he's with, where he is, or what he's doing.  My gut tells me to tell him to take his stuff and find another "motel".  
    I won't tell him what to do or give him ultimatums, but the behavior isn't building any trust.


    Your thoughts? I'd appreciate thoughtful consideration and helpful responses.  

    +9  Views: 1491 Answers: 23 Posted: 11 years ago
    Ducky

    Moderator
    Where is he living...with you? with your mom?
    Bob/PKB

    Primarily at my house. That's the address he's using.

    23 Answers

    Bob,I'll lean to the far right and say please please don't give up on your son,now is the time to draw him nearer not push him away,don't let him get ate up by the streets.I was your son so many years ago.I was the youngest of four and the only one to give my mom trouble,in and out of jail,never seeing what it was doing to my mother,sure I would see the crying and the worry,but never knowing it was breaking her heart.And then the big one hit and after the hearing they were taking me back to the county jail to await transport to a state prison and as we were pulling out from the back of the courthouse I saw my mom and my lawyer walking down the courthouse steps and my mom fainted and fell down four or five stairs before my lawyer was able to catch her,and me seeing this unfold chained up in a van was too much,I knew at that very second that I would never hurt my mom again,I still had to go do my time,and once again she was with me every step of the way,what a wonderful mother and person.So hang in there Bob because I know you love your son just like my mother loves me,and I know your son loves you as I do my mom.P.S.Keep him away from those drugs,they are the root of all evil.

    Ducky

    Moderator
    I understand that you have a different perspective and it's good to hear it CR. Your last sentence though, really expresses the problem in a nutshell. Bob CANNOT keep her son away from the drugs...that is impossible...that is HIS responsibility and HIS alone! When HE decides to get his act together, it will happen...not a minute before then. HE will also be the one to decide what kind of a life he will live and then do it! No one can do it for him...you know that.
    ROMOS

    With you mate!
    ClevelandRick

    You are right Ducky,he is the only one that can stop himself from putting drugs into his body,but I also think people showing someone that there is another side of life does wonders.
    Ducky

    Moderator
    I agree that it does. HE will need to show some interest in "that other side" though, in order for ANYONE (especially Bob) to be able to help him. That's why I suggested that, for now at least, she can love/help him "from a distance" based on what she is seeing and knowing in her gut.
    Tommyh

    Hey Rick.It took a lot of guts to share that story with us.Good on you mate.There is good somewhere deep inside everybody & yours is shining like a beacon right now.Good on you mate.That's about the best thing an Aussie can say to someone.
    Bob/PKB

    THANK YOU, CR. You have shared this with us before, and I've not forgotten. I won't turn my back on him, just don't want to "enable" poor choices. Next week should be the defining moment in his court-ordered responsibilities. I'm hoping to fill most of his other waking hours with positive stuff like school, work, therapy....
    I wish he could talk to you.
    mycatsmom

    your answer was well written, altho sad, Rick.

    I agree with doolittle. You have to set boundries and if he does not respect that, then help him find a place to live elsewhere. He is a grown man. You schould not have to worry so much about him, when he does not seem to care about your feelings.
    It is his decision wether he wants to stay out of trouble or not.

    Bob/PKB

    As always, your thoughts are so well put and make perfect sense. Thanks for your support, Ann; I'll keep you updated.
    Ann

    Bob., Where is his father in all this? I think your son needs directions from both of you. You schould not have to deal with it alone.

    He's a big boy P, time to stop worrying (I know you wont).


    Let him do what he needs to do.

    Bob/PKB

    Yeah, but I know what he NEEDS to do, as do a number of others. HE doesn't seem to know, and that's going to result in a long prison term. It breaks my heart, but it IS his life. I just don't have to facilitate his demise.
    ROMOS

    And if you take him in and he does what he wants who will you blame?
    Bob/PKB

    I don't make his choices. It's not on me. I DID figure out that much.
    ROMOS

    Well good for you P,lots of good advice on this page, hope some of it helps.

    He is a MAN.  I'm sure that, while being punished, it has been literally pounded into his head, what will happen, if he decides to act like a fool....again. Unless there is some good reason why he is unable to grasp warnings about breaking the rules, he is simply rebellious or a "blamer".  Until a person, of any age, accepts responsibility for their own behavior, they will continue down the same path. If he needs a sympathetic babysitter, let it not be you.  "Thirty days to find your own home son. I'll still love you and help you....from a distance"!


    (Sorry Bob....tough love from you, may be his only hope.)

    Bob/PKB

    IF he continues to stay with me as primary residence, there will be some clear cut expectations. He has no money at this point and close to $15,000 in fines, costs, restitution. If he ends up at my mom's, she'll try to pay off everything FOR him. I've got to keep him with me to protect him from HER "good intentions". We'll be having a heart-heart tomorrow. I gotta pray more, too. Thank you for your good advice.
    Ducky

    Moderator
    It's a very difficult situation for you, not to mention the constant stress. Remember to take care of you!
    mycatsmom

    PKB, if your mom pays off all his debts for him, she'll be enabling him.

    Ahh Bob! This is a tough one.Although I think Romos nailed it.He's a big boy maybe it's time to cut him loose. Comes a time in everyones life when they have to be responsible for themselves & take the consequences if they don't. I have read your posts in the past about this son of yours & I know you have done so much to try to help him.How much more are you expected to do?

    lambshank

    Agree totally
    Bob/PKB

    Thank you Tommy; he called me this afternoon from my mom's and we had a pretty straight forward conversation. We will have another one face-face tomorrow.
    If we can't come to an agreement that works for both of us, he'll end up staying with my mom, his dad, or his older brother (none of these are good places). I'm hoping he looks for work or starts school after he gets his schedule down for drug classes and NA meetings. He doesn't get to sit around; these two weeks have been odd.

    I hope he knows what a great Mom he has in you! However I doubt it! Maybe he has learned a lesson. You always hope they do. I just fear you will be disappointed and I hope you haven't had to lie to anyone about if he's at home or not! I'm hoping things will be ok for you but I know I have been tricked a few times by excellent liars .  Keep us informed.

    ROMOS

    Been, seen eh?
    clu

    Indeed!
    Bob/PKB

    Thanks, clu. NO WAY will I cover for ANY of my sons. I'm the one who, for better or worse, stood up in court and asked the judge NOT to release my son O.R. because he was a drug addict. The judge kept him, but "well-meaning" people raised the bail. This was the older brother, about 5 years ago. No one does this any more, thank God.

    I take it he is staying with you.  If so, make boundaries & tell him what they are and what will happen if he crosses them.  Then, it is up to him to choose behaviors that are within the boundaries or ones that are not.  You don't have to put up with any adult (related or not) whose behaviors effect you

    Bob/PKB

    You are right. I didn't set any boundaries, trying to give him a chance to set his own. He obviously doesn't know how. IF (when?) he shows up at my door, I'll do exactly what you suggest, if I even given him another chance.
    mycatsmom

    doo, I was going to say that too, that she should set up some house rules.

    I know what your going through all too well.Honestly Bob, there is not much you can do, except to be there when they fall.All the pleading and begging in the world won't change them.His addiction will come first, no matter what.It is very sad for parents to sit back and watch our grown children sabotage their lives.Drugs and alcohol can destroy a family.I know it's hard, but try and focus on your own life, rather than his.

    Bob/PKB

    It's sad to hear your words, PL, because you speak from experience no one wants to have. For sure, no begging or pleading; we have to come to some agreements. One step at a time. I hope someday your loved one gets clean. :(

    You are a wonderful Mother P... Your son is an adult and as much as it hurts, you have to let him live and experience his own life lessons.  It is a difficult pill to swallow.


    xo Fishie 

    Bob/PKB

    I always said, once they could read and make change for a dollar, I'd send them to NeverLand and let them be kids forever. Those were the days. How's your little one?
    FISH-O

    He is wonderful. He had an amazing Christmas. ... Fun stuff and trains. It's all about the trains!

    When I was 24 I was growing pot and making white lightening…my friends were all thrilled. Eventually I decided for myself that I liked the hangovers and being stoned less than the highs and lows. The obvious solution was and ever since remained to quit fowling my head up with all that. I’ve know lots of folk that got into the bottle, pot and narcotics more than me. Some died in the process. NA  is about finding the strength within to stop…day by day. Being a drug addict and driven to seek your favorite narcotic is a trade-off between feeling crazy-urgent-seeking and deep relief. Addiction driven people are insane, Living a lie about everything to everyone without any since of shame or remorse. As an addict I would lie to everyone about everything, to get a little money I would have stolen my mother’s false teeth for a speck of gold. Addicts….if their lips are moving they are lying; if you turn your back on an addict they will steal anything and everything in your house. I have seen addicts over-write checks for their parents accounts for drugs. Addicts can only find redemption for themselves because addiction is the most selfish personal state of existence…morality, shame and loyalty does not exist if there are no drugs in the deal. Money seeking along with a thousand wonderful schemes to profit wonderfully with your money included in their plan is typical for drug addicts and their stories seem to make such good sense….especially with your money.     

    mycatsmom

    I know I've said it before, but the draft used to take care of all these problems. Too bad they won't reinstate it. The army did turn boys into respondsible men .
    robertgrist

    Or led them to die in self sacrifice like some “Christ” for causes they are told are just and right. The policies of perpetual war were promoted by those who also brought us the WW2, cold war, Korean war and every war that followed. The policy of perpetual war ended with Obama just two years ago.
    mycatsmom

    Robert, yes, I was also against the Korean war, the vietnam war, and the iraq war. All terrible waste of human lives and money .

    A 24 years old is an adult but on the other hand he is your flesh and blood, don't give up on him unless he is a threat to your life. When I said don't give up I meant you should  be there for him when he needs your support for change

    Bob/PKB

    I like your answer...be there for him when he needs your support for change. THANK YOU!!

    From my experience of working around inmates, 80 % seem to want to do better when get out. The other 20 % have no business outside and will not act right when they get out. I do believe that some people dont have the ability to make good decisions . Try to work with him. I know its hard. Tell him you want to trust him. But be guarded, sometimes getting out is stressful and they really cant handle the pressure.

    Bob/PKB

    Thank you for some very good insight, Z-man. He says he wants better for himself and wants me to trust him. I'll try to do better, but you are right....the trust is thin.

    Until his probation Is over, I think he supposed to stay at the address he gave. Which is yours and only yours. So, you do have some control on what goes on in your house.  You do have to set boundaries. Tell him his "friends" is not welcome at your house. You and your other sons are giving him rides to his meetings so he don't need any friends to do that. Do NOT give him any money.  Do he have a job to pay his fines an restitution? If not, with job hunting, going to classes and meetings, he has enough to do instead of hanging out with these so called friends.


    You say you don't want to tell him what to do. This is not the time to trust him. His past and present behavior is not trust worthy. You said that yourself. Don't keep your mouth closed. Tell him his behavior is not right and you fear that he is going to end up in prison. At least you said something. Tell him the prison system has no problem with telling him what to do. You know, you're going to shower, eat, work, go to bed, wake up, etc. when they say so. Or do I watch too much TV? So, if he wants and likes his freedom, I think he better cooperate.

    Bob/PKB

    Hey, chelleanne, thanks for answering. One of the things people don't understand is that what happens to my son DOES affect me. It IS his life, but his health and happiness is important to me. When my kids are struggling, it hurts.
    chelleanne

    Just keep talking to him and pray for him. He is young and don't realize how much he is hurting his family. He will one day and know that his mother always stood by him and NEVER gave up.
    Bob/PKB

    Yep. I agree. I did let him know that what happens to him DOES affect me because I care about him. I think he understands a little better. He keeps telling me he's done with the drugs and theiving, that he DOES have friends who aren't "scums of the earth". I can only pray that's true.

    Sometimes prayer and fasting will work if you believe and do it sincerely, It's worked for me when my daughter was in trouble, now she doing fine.

    Tommyh

    Fasting?? Really??
    itsmee

    Who fasted and prayed, you or your daughter?
    Bob/PKB

    Prayer, of course. Fasting??? Huh?
    Headless Man

    You think not, if you try it you will see, if you can't fast food fast something you do like TV or internet for at least 3 days and every time you start to do what your fasting pray instead.
    Tommyh

    Sorry mate but that's BS
    Ducky

    Moderator
    No one's belief is BS to them, and that's okay.
    Bob/PKB

    Interesting concept, HM. I'll think about that, seriously.
    Headless Man

    Yes Tommyh, it's BS to you because you don't believe and it wouldn't work for you....sorry.
    Tommyh

    Oh! don't be sorry for me Randy.It's BS because it's BS not because it won't work for me.I do believe in the power of positive thinking.Prayer? well,I'll leave that one alone,but fasting??? or going without something you need could be dangerous for so many people.
    And that's completely unnecessary.
    Ducky

    Moderator
    I personally don't believe that "fasting" has anything to do with literally "not eating". Perhaps that was the case in Old Testament times but I believe it means fasting (or relinquishing) outside distractions for a time, to focus totally on "asking God". Of course, like all beliefs, it can/will be interpreted in any number of ways. As humans, we ALL like to believe that WE are right on this, and every other topic! I don't think it's worth arguing about, but, then again, I believe what I choose, so I don't have to do that.

    Phyl, you seemed to have all the answers already, I can't add a thing except my support and love. You are in my prayers and thoughts. Hang tough, lady and pray yourself. Be ready to accept whatever happens......

    Bob/PKB

    Thanks, Julie, and you know I'll keep you posted.

    As we all know it's tough being a parent sometimes, sounds like you have been and are still being a wonderful mum to your son. You have to stick by him and try to help him, but you also have to make rules in your own house, and he has to accept that.I hope the new year brings you more better times , and hope that your son realises how lucky he is to have you. x

    Bob/PKB

    :D. Thanks! I needed that. I think we will be OK when we get the ground rules settled.

    I’m sorry you’re having trouble. There’s nothing I can add.  A lot of men with undiagnosed ADHD have problems. There are many doctors who don’t believe it exists. (It does) Has he been checked by a reliable doctor?   itsmee

    Bob/PKB

    No, he hasn't, and he DOES want to see a doctor for some health concerns. I'd like him to see a psychologist to look into why he turned to drug use in the first place; it may help him in recovery. ADHD behavior was never prevalent, but it's worth looking into, for sure.
    itsmee

    My brother didn’t make it through highschool. He drank, drugged ... other bad things. A relative was the chancellor of a good university snuck him in the back door and my bro very quickly went on to get his Ph.D. He’s had a very busy, successful career. I’ve heard variations of this story so many times. It seems to happen to males.
    I hope you see to it that he goes to a doctor. I’m trying to think of a doctor in our area who might be good at diagnoses.
    Bob/PKB

    His dad is back in town, so I'll be contacting him to try to put something together. My son is insured through his "wonderful" father. I'll keep you posted.
    itsmee

    He’s a bright kid, huh? Yes, I would like to know. ADHD needs medicine. So does ADD. It changed my life totally. I don’t want to say the med here.
    My brother did take medicine ... but not for a long time. He just needed to find direction,
    Bob/PKB

    Dad is home, so I'll try to get hold of him this weekend, much as it pains me. :(
    itsmee

    It will be worth it, Phyllis. I just put that ADHD out there. I don’t know anything of course. I needed counselors of one kind and another all through my daze ... still do.

    The most difficult thing to do as a parent is to let our children run their own lives, even though we see they are headed for failure. We didn't see or help our son out of his problems for amost ten years. This past year he has returned to our family. He helped himself out of his troubles when he finally hit bottom. It is difficult, but give him his own wings to fly with or he will continue on the same path forever. My thoughts and prayers are with you, for I understand the difficulties that lay ahead for you both. E-mail me anytime you wish when you need support.

    Bob/PKB

    Thank you, witchway. Your comments and offer to email are just the kinds of things that make me love akaQA so much. Hopefully, all my updates will be positive. He's home with me now, and we're just kicking back.
    mycatsmom

    How does one email another one on akaQA ?

    Do you think maybe he's on drugs and /or  alchohol, PKB ?  We're here for you and we don't judge you. My best friend--Carol's  grand daughter finally got out of jail just in time for Christmas, but the poor girl's mother had just died a month of so ago; so she has nowhere to go . My friend was going to have her come here, to her house, but then  her grandaughter disappeared. Carol's grandson is still in jail. Those two are brother and sister. He was in jail for abou 4 years, but when he was out on probation, he went back in jail........supposedly just b/c his father in law had guns and alchohol in the house.  :- |    You can't win for losing.

    Bob/PKB

    Horrible the young woman has disappeared. That doesn't sound good.
    Yes, what is in the house can have an adverse effect on probation. My son knows I have a gun, and he told the P.O. I hid it, so well, I think, that it will never be found. There are no clips for it, but that doesn't matter.

    I don't mean to answer twice,so no karma for this answer,but I did think about Bob's son all day at work and I just knew I wanted to say something else but it would not come to me,then about 2pm it hit me like a ton of bricks.People that end up in prison is only half the story,the flip side is when you get out,it's not easy,having to hide your past all the time and in today's world it's get's harder and harder to do that.I was lucky in having good people behind me and I really did want to turn my life around instead of doing life.So in short what I want to say is it FOLLOWS you FOREVER & EVER...

    Ducky

    Moderator
    Yes. I do know someone who was in jail and he has that constant stress also...hiding the truth of the past, avoiding certain people because "they know", wondering if the new neighbors "know". It's horrible for him too even though he has done everything he can to "correct" what he did...it goes on and on. I add that he is a great guy who made a mistake.
    Bob/PKB

    You couldn't be more right, Rick. My cousin married a man fresh out of jail for about 8 years. He had no clue how to function, and, even though he got a job (working with me as an electrician's asst. actually), he wanted everything all at once. Throw in alcoholism, and he was out of a job in less than six weeks. Then he took off a bit later, robbed some banks, went to Oregon (Washington?) where they don't have "3 Strikes", robbed another bank and called the police form his motel to come and get him. He's in a witness protection section of the prison he'll be at for the next 15 years. Will be over 60 when he gets out. What a life wasted.
    mycatsmom

    Rick, you can add answers whenever you like . We all love you and your input.( I'm not trying to sound like a mod.)
    Tommyh

    Truer words were never spoken.I know a young guy who did 5 yrs.It's totally in the past.He's been out for more than 10 yrs but struggles running his own car wash business because he's afraid to apply for a job in case his record comes up.This yong blokeis completely rehabilitated as far as I'm concerned.I'm happy to call him a mate & I regularly do business with him.But the stigma survuves.

    It could be but for the grace of god thier go i,

    Hi Bob, what I think your son needs , and if it is possible,  to be checked into a rehab for drug  addicts,( not sure if he has been there before, but it is always worth another try,  IF he really wants to be off them)  where with help and support, he can get of the drugs. He is ill, and all the house rules in world wont help him kick the habit. Understanding and medication is what he need from professionals.  Good luck to both of you.

    Bob/PKB

    I am in complete agreement with you, Dollybird. There are some decent short-term (28 day) in patient programs here, as well as those which are all-day out-patient. I think he should be immersed in therapy. HOWEVER, he was basically in rehab settings from age 16 1/2 through darn near 20. I do think he needs therapy and not just court-ordered "classes". Thank you for your good thought. PS The pups are adorable! :D
    Dollybird

    Bob, I want to scream here, court order classes, OMG, what rubbish, they sound more suiteable for teenagers, advising them about dangers of taking drugs. Your son needs a place where he is helped to come off drugs, with support, a day at a time, its not easy, cold turkey is the horrible part. Not sure even if 28 days would be long enough as he been on them for so long.
    Bob/PKB

    After 21 months in 4 different jails, I thinks he's pretty much off the drugs, and he has had enough drug education to choke a horse. I really think therapy to investigate WHY might be helpful. I know, for certain, that he needs to be kept very, very busy, with as little time to himself as possible.

    Ricks' point of view is enlightening, however, I am with Ducky.  Also, only those who have been addicted can really empathize with Rick.  And I am sure that Bob has done her job of raising her children correctly, and he unfortunately has made bad choices.  That should not be on Bob's lap to correct!  He must fall, before he is ready to rise up and overcome this addiction.  With the brief history since his release, he is not there yet!  Hopefully he will get there soon, without any harm to himself or others.  Of course it is easy for us not involved to give this advise.  Poor Bob must live it, and I am sure that it breaks her heart to see things unfolding as it is.  Do not put any guilt upon yourself.  Know that your family is in our prayers...

    Bob/PKB

    Thank you, bustieone. You have a good perspective. Time will tell, of course.


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