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    Why a God?

    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    Epicurus


    Why call Him or Her God?

    +4  Views: 4469 Answers: 35 Posted: 7 years ago
    Tags: god question
    Imsmartnsoru

    There is NO evil, only the belief in evil. There can only be evil if you believe in evil. When evil is believed to exist, one believes in bodies, the physical realm. A place where bodies seem seperated, having thier own brains, not connected to a Creator.Evil is a negative thought, being negative, meaning nothing. How can nothing exist? Nothing is nothing, negative. The belief that nothing exist means one would believe nothing has power and creative abilities.ONLY SOMETHING EXISTS.This Something is ALL that EXIST, being opposite of nothing.This Something IS THE CREATOR OF ALL that EXIST, GOD.

    Imsmartnsoru

    and we named this SOMETHING, GOD.Or ALL POWERFUL, ALL that IS, OUR CREATOR, THE FATHER, THE SON, THE HOLY SPIRIT. ALL POSITIVE, TOTAL ENERGY.All of these decriptions are all opposite of what does not exist,nothing, is it not? A question that we are all searching for is, "Should I believe in nothing or should I believe in something? OUR CREATOR, which you can deny or not ,what ever you want to call HIM, doesn't care what you call HIM, as long as you call HIM.

    Imsmartnsoru

    Isn't something,that no matter how simple an explaination,it sounds so confusing? "What in the hell is he talking about?"That's because we try to use our brains to understand and not our INTELLIGENCE. Which by the way also describes GOD. SOMETHING CREATES!!! Nothing, being nothing,can't create. Nothing and SOMETHING can not coexist. But we believe in nothing,and we go to war to prove nothing exist."Over my dead body will I believe that GOD {SOMETHING} exist!!" Well the world you see and expirence is because you believe in NOTHING. Is death not another word for nothing.GOD IS Everlasting LIFE!

    Imsmartnsoru

    I all most forgot, MORAL of the story. Be positive,think positive, you will experince positive in your life. Be negative, think negative and you will experince negative. This isn't rocket science. Try it. See what happens.

    Imsmartnsoru

    Well bluedeath, what do you think? No comment. Don't bother, it's obvious what you think, just by the name. That's OK, so do I. Just not kidding myself, but atleast I know I am insane.

    Imsmartnsoru

    The Holocaust involved bodies,human bodies that believes "that if your body is differrent and not made according to "my"(a real insane evil soul,in a body) body specs.,I will destroy them. Evil in human form, Being INSANE and believing "he"is the all powerful body of knowledge has the power to destroy and create human bodies the way "he"(being evil, acting out his thoughts) sees fit.Not believing in what REALLY EXISTs, SPIRIT.SPIRIT BEING ONE with ALL THAT EXISTS, GOD, Spirits CREATOR. "he",the evil believer ofthe body,on the other hand,believes he can destroy"ALL THAT EXIST",ALL POWERFUL GOD.

    Imsmartnsoru

    Difinitions: EVIL, is"nothing" believing and acting out in attack mode, believes that the body exist and the body is all knowing and all wisdom. When ONE believes in a SPLIT MIND, MIND BEING ALL THAT IS, (GOD),now in 2 parts,Part 1. THE CHRIST MIND, the part of MIND that has THE POSITIVE ENERGY that CREATES ALL that "IS" POSITIVE, and what HAS MEANING, LOVE,PEACE,JOY ALL THAT MATTERS.Part2: The Part of mind that can,t create. The opposite OF ALL THAT IS POWERFUL, so being opposite, it is powerless. Nothingness.I have asked this before, "How can NOTHING (negative)create?That is BELIEF in EVIL

    Imsmartnsoru

    So did the Holocaust exist or take place? Did bodies die? As I stated in the past, when I type this TURTH, "ONLY GOD EXISTS,nothing else "Do I believe in bodies, and did 6 million bodies die in the "Holocaust"? Yes, I see bodies,I believe that I am a body, So therefore the LAW of PHYSICs apply,I also see and experince death and destruction because of my "insane" thoughts, which is believing that THE CHRIST MIND can not exist or create anything,that there is no god.Yes I believe in attack.I do not believe I,YOU,me,he she,they, them,Jesus are ALL ONE.So my beliefs are complete opposite of GODS.

    Imsmartnsoru

    What makes me different, I perfer unique, is I am learning that these negative thoughts we all have caused all the pain and dispair, in the world & in my life. That's because I AM the CREATOR of all that I see,hear,touch, smell & taste. If one is in the DARK, and does not believe in LIGHT, one will stay in the dark until one day SOMEONE sends you,directs you, to the LIGHT. Well I now CHOOSE no more darkness,I'm tired of nothing. So now I'm learning and listening to THE CHRIST MIND, THE FATHER,JESUS THE CHRIST, and because THE HOLY SPIRIT IS within me,I have(and you too)a connecting link, cont.

    Imsmartnsoru

    A bridge that fills all the gaps, that connects with GOD. I'm learning the false does not exist, only the TRUTH! Sounds simple said that way, but so hard to KNOW. That's it . I'm done.

    Imsmartnsoru

    LethalLee, THERE IS NO DEATH, ONLY LIFE!!! I hope I answered your concern, THANK YOU!

    Imsmartnsoru

    bluedeath, I'm completely aware I have no idea who you are? This is a perfect example of wrongful judgememt. Thank you for your help. I did know this about you, did I not?

    LethalLee

    I guess you believe the Holcaust never existed as well

    Raider_retired 3_29_

    Theres ur thumbs up I have used all they give you in a day and am borrowing votes from tomorrow. Expect more my friend and how about a thumbs up for effort on my answer to your question!.

    bluedeath

    Tonight's discussion has been both enlightening and entertaining, but I hope more people will read the Greek quote from about 300 BCE and give some real thought about what Epicurus is asking. He is actually asking about the Greek City Gods (every city had its own) and whether they could prevent evil. And then he is taking the argument to its logical conclusion that there are no Greek Gods. But saying that, the argument here would be just as valid for today's religious ideas. So try to answer the question without bias, if possible to today's, or yesteryear's gods or goddesses.

    bluedeath

    Some people are equating this quote with their own religion, and that is fine, but I am asking for responses on this quote, not an attack on other people or religions. What are the flaws in the Epicurus philosophical argument?


    This is meant to be an exercise in critical thinking. It is meant to provide a pathway towards better understanding and discussion.

    bluedeath

    I hope everyone is looking at the follow-up pages too because several authors are providing both strong and weak arguments about this quote and I invite everyone to think and question and respond critically to everyone's position.

    bluedeath

    Interesting outlook, one that dovetails nicely with the idea that you exist because I imagine you to exist. But once I cease to exist, then so do you. I wish I would or could say I thought that one up, but I did not. So how is it obvious by my name what I think? Bluedeath was what I came up with to get rid of the blues, nothing more or less. So please explain, "Well bluedeath, what do you think? No comment. Don't bother, it's obvious what you think, just by the name. That's OK, so do I. Just not kidding myself, but atleast I know I am insane." Of course I'm going to comment, that's what I do.

    bluedeath

    I don't think we are born just to die for nothing. But there is not some omnipotent being that gave me life, direction, or death. I am here to live my life to the best of my ability in order to die in and with peace. Even though I am an atheist, I believe I should do right by others, just as I want them to do right by me. Yes it's the "Golden Rule." But before you get on my case about it, I believe most religions can teach us if used as guides, like the fables of my youth. Read the "Books." Don't accept what others tell you. Choose for yourself what to believe, that's what Martin Luther said.

    donell77

    nothing is the begaining of somthing.you had no will to be born.so soomthing gave you life why?are you born just to die for noihing,i don"t think so.somthing brought you here for somthing to do somthing for him.you didn"t bring nothing,and you can take nothing. which is somthing with you to nothing.do we relly have control of our live if we came from nothing.you can drink water,but you can"t take it with you.bread air,but can"t take it with you...ete.don"t put your trust in things. put your somthing in God that last forever.

    35 Answers (1-30 Displayed)

    Did God create the evil? Well, what is evil but that which opposes God. I guess that by giving His angels and His human beings freewill to choose, He knowing allowed for the evil to come into existence. But God has declared that He will destroy Satan and all evil when all has been accomplished in Jesus Christ.

    FriendofGod

    Q1) So you could not accuse God of not giving you a choice


    Q2) God will destroy Satan when all has been accomplished in Jesus Christ. (you'll have to read the bible)


    Q3&4) God's grace. God is longsuffering. If God were to end all of this now your chance of salvation would be over and you would have to go to the lake of fire with Satan. He is waiting for you, longing for you to receive His love and mercy.

    FriendofGod

    Does not the Creator have the authority over the creation to set the rules and prameters of life? You can accept a FREE offer of grace and mercy for your sins or you must depart from the love of God forever. Doesn't seem like a difficult choice to make since it is free, but men love themselves and their sins more than the Creator, so they choose to live and die without God.


    "Longsuffering" means God is willing to endure the evil for a long time and He does this because He is patiently waiting for all those who would believe.

    FriendofGod

    The wages of sin is death (spiritual death and seperation from the Holy Spirit of God). All have sinned and have experienced this spiritual seperation from God. Jesus satisfied the death penalty for mankind at the cross. Jesus is God's attonement for sin. What those who believe on Jesus do not have to suffer is the seperation from God anymore...eternal life. While still here on earth in this life Christians will still suffer at the hands of evil.

    FriendofGod

    The 66 books of the bible are in perfect harmony one with the other. There are absolutely zero contradictions. You probably have not practiced proper bible exegesis or bible hermeneutics. You must first learn these methods to then make a proper analysis of the scriptures.

    Headless Man

    I've ask for someone to show me where there is a contradiction or misleading statement in the BIBLE and have heard nothing.

    Headless Man

    Because they were different views of the same thing wrote by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John if you have four people give a report on some event they won't be identical, unless they copy. So they not identical but there are no contradictions. LOVE, Randy

    bluedeath

    So if God created the evil, then why? If he is omnipotent, then why not just get rid of Satan and be done with it? So why wait until Jesus Christ has accomplished his deeds? Why not just do it now?

    bluedeath

    But Christianity already says I have no choice. I mean given the choice of unbridled purgatory or heaven, what choice does anyone who believes Gods exist actually have? Your last point about suffering, I thought Jesus supposedly died for our sins so we would not need to suffer. Or do I have the entire Christian ideals wrong? Oh, and I have read the Bible, but it is so contradictory from story to story, it makes no sense when taken as an aggregate.

    bluedeath

    If there are absolutely no contradictions between stories in the Bible, then why are stories recounting the life and death and rebirth of Jesus not identical?

    bluedeath

    That seems perfectly reasonable until you consider the books were supposedly all written by God. If God wrote the books, then it would be His view, not the people the books were named after.

    bluedeath

    The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors.

    bluedeath

    The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection.

    bluedeath

    The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ's father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

    bluedeath

    Those were from: A List of Biblical Contradictions (1992)


    Jim Meritt


    [Editor's note: Not everyone will agree that all of the listed "contradictions" are, in fact, contradictions. It is therefore up to the reader to use his own intelligence and decide for himself what s/he can and will accept as a contradiction. In any case, lists such as this can be useful in serving as a springboard for further study.]

    The meaning of atheist is that you do not believe in any god or God. If you consider there is, at that moment you are unsure, once you are unsure you become a agnostic. Agnostic means you don't know.
    If people believe in God, it is because they choose to believe in God. He gave us free will to decide for ourselves. He didn't make a bunch of non-thinking robot people to worship Him. He wants to be loved because you want to love him, but know that he loves everyone.


    I just don't understand how people who don't believe or the agnostic, can blame Him for all the bad in the world. If there is a God, there is a Devil, and that means one is responsible for the bad. Doesn't it make sense, that the bad guy makes the bad stuff happen and the good guy makes the good stuff happen?


    I am not throwing bible verses in peoples faces, I am not trying to save anyone, I just say; try to remain open to the possibility that there is a God, He does exist, and that he loves you very much.
    If I were trying to save you, would that be bad that someone cares enough to try to lead you to the water?


    But when it's all argued or it's all said and done, it is your decision and I respect your opinion.

    bluedeath

    Contrary to what you are saying, people who are atheist, do not blame gods for what is happening in the world, good or bad. People who are agnostic do not agree with organized religions because they agree with Martin Luther that a person can have a relationship with God without intermediaries, or they just have not found an idea about deities that works for them, or they are unsure if deities even exist. And as far as trying to save others, to go out and preach the word of God is very much in the context of many religions and I hold no ill feelings for anyone trying to save others.

    bluedeath

    But I want to remind everyone reading this, the line of philosophical thought attributed to Epicurus came from a Greek philosopher living more than two hundred years before Christ, when Greek was under Roman control, along with most of Europe. His quote refers to questioning gods protecting city-states of Greece. But isn't it interesting how ancient philosophical ideas has relevance today?
    And if anyone has not figured it out, we are using the Socratic method for attempting to discern the truth by asking questions and attempting to wind our way to truth.

    GOD can do anything, but won't go against his nature, he can't sin and is hurt when we sin, however he won't force us to obey, he gave us free will, there is no love in robots. The earth and the universe was created using laws that we call nature and sin (from the devil) came into that perfect set of laws and corrupted them, so evil comes from the devil. The devil was created to temp Eve and Adam to test there willingness to obey. He sent his son to die for us and give us a chance to accept him by faith, then the bible opens up like never before every time you read it you see something you never seen before. He will live in your heart and give you the Holy Spirit to help you. If you read the bible and are not searching for help or GOD it won't open up to you. GOD will return and take his church, there will be a time of hell on earth but if you accept him then you will be of only a few and will have to die for your belief then. Sorry for my plain english but big words just show intelligence not common sense.

    Headless Man

    GOD wants you to accept him by FAITH, there is a hole in your heart that only HE can fill. That hole is the HOLY SPIRIT seeking him. The bible can be hard to understand but you can get all you need to be saved (born again, converted) by following The Roman Road to Salvation: http://contenderministries.org/romanroad.php LOVE, Randy

    Headless Man

    Yes, the HOLY SPIRIT is trying to lead you to god to have you accept HIS gift of eternal life. A good exampleof what GOD can do is on my home link here please read it.

    bluedeath

    So, if I understand you correctly Randy, by reading the bible and not searching for either help or God means biblical understanding will not occur? But I am searching for the truth, is that not what God would want? And if God does want that, then He should open the Bible to me, just as he has done for you. But if he does not want that, then what does that say about God? Epicurus said "if Is he able, but not willing [to prevent evil]? Then he is malevolent." Does that make Him malevolent?

    bluedeath

    "That hole is the HOLY SPIRIT seeking him." I am confused by what you are trying to say here. Please restate or give some examples of how what you are trying to say.

    Why call God Him or Her?: When speaking of such with higher understanding (esoteric;spiritual as opposed to exoteric; literal), we speak not genre's but of polarities, that are the powers positive/negative, without which there would be nothing created.

    Headless Man

    GOD is not a him or her he is a Spirit.

    Headless Man

    You're funny, I'm sure they addressed GOD as father because HE is the father of man by creation not sex. HE is one the trinity is one three-forms of GOD.

    bluedeath

    Very good point! Polarities being opposed. But I question whether no thing could be created without polarity because it seems to me there are not just positive and electrical charges, but also neutral charges in every atom. So should not that indicate that there are not only opposites, but also a central? Sort of a trans-polaritity idea far beyond my meager brain to consider or fully appreciate. But even so, the idea is intriguing and should be explored more fully. Very good discussion. Please continue. :-)

    bluedeath

    But in the Christian Bibles, God is referred to as Him or He. But then again, I'm still not sure about justification for the Holy Trinity, being part Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, making Him only part Spirit.

    bluedeath, we can agree not to agree and still be friends. I'll even give you a thumbs up for asking the question many of us have also thought. I am not all religious and have never read half of the bible. I do know it says that not all men will make it to the heaven. God promised us salvation and forgiveness if we unconditionally accept him as our one true creater and turn or lives faithfully to him. Basically have faith in him that anything evil can be over come with him in your heart. The attribute of God which describes his ability to do whatever He wills. God's will is limited by His nature, and He therefore cannot do anything contrary to His nature as God, such as to ignore sin, to sin, or to do something absurd or self-contradictory. God is not controlled by His power, but has complete control over it; otherwise He would not be a free being like he has made us. To a certain extent, He has voluntarily limited Himself by the free will of His rational creatures, our free will to sin or be seduced by evil. In other words there is nothing that God cannot do except that which goes against His nature. God alone has the power to conquer sin and death. He even created Satan who disobeyed and fell, therefore, He has power over him. He promised to give us the power to overcome the evil in this world. But we must have complete faith in him and not be a psychopathic molester. I hope some made sense and here is your thumbs up. If this made you think a little more than a thumbs up for the my (opinion) answer will be appreciated.

    Felicia

    God did by pass both you feel it inside it is your true feelings. It is the same as the love you have for someone there is no true proof. The love you have for another is felt not seen, heard or touched. Remember that Jesus said I knew you all before you were born. So one could say our spirit was born first. Every person has their own unique path no two people will share the same path it may be similar but it will not be the same. Good Luck with your search for the answers you are looking for.

    Gabalis

    One does not simply read the any Bible, one must hear it as well beyond simple words, to hear and receive, suuch holy mysteries. The words are their formulas, the riddle the key. The solutions are in Reason and Reason is in God alone.

    Gabalis

    Blue one to hear is to understand beyond mere knowledge, that which is hidden in its riddles or parables, literalism notwithstanding.

    bluedeath

    So, you are attempting to apply Universal and Natural Laws to a god? You say he is limited by His nature - but I am confused why He should be limited to anything, because if he is, then he is not omnipotent, which is what Epicurus pointed out many years ago. But then you say God is not controlled, but has complete control, so how is he limited by his own control? Also, why did He create a satan who God, if omnipotent, would know would disobey Him? And if Satan has fallen, why is there evil today? Nope, no thumbs up at this time - needs a better argument and then I will send you a thumb up. :-)

    bluedeath

    Reason is the whole point here. So, I being Deaf, who can never "hear the Bible," am always going to be ignorant of It's truth? Please elaborate, so I can understand why a God, who can do anything, would not just supplant the truth by bypassing both sight and sound in order to give everyone in the world a fighting change at being with God after the second coming.

    bluedeath

    Thank you Felicia, and same to you. As far as love is concerned, I know of many divorced couples who love each other, but cannot stand to be married to each other. So how does that work as far as Jesus is concerned?

    bluedeath

    You must be right because you talk in riddles too. I just wish you would address the quote and not overreact to what others ask or say.

    I must give a comment on the Watch Tower and the Jehovah Witnesses for I do not wish for anyone to be led astray. This religion is not considered Christian by any protestant denomination for they deny the testamony of Jesus Christ that ye are saved by grace through faith, not of yourselves and not of works. They believe one must earn their way to eternal life and this is why they are so devout at going door to door trying to gain favor with God. This is not what Christ taught. Furthurmore they reject that Jesus is God as has been clearly defined in the scriptures, so much that they needed to print their own translation (New World Translation) of the bible in the 1950s, so they could change the points that disagreed with their agenda. One such point is John chapter one, they changed the accepted translation given from hundereds of Greek scholars for some 1800 years from the "Word was God" to the "Word was a god" because it did not fit their man-made doctrines they needed to control their followers.


    What would you accept? 1800 years of God honoring translation or about a hundred years of a fringe few who decided it has been taught wrong for the last 1800 years and needed to be changed? God promised to preserve HIs word, He did not just begin a hundred years ago.


    Anyone wishing to learn the true scriptures, you included Taz, may obtain a true bible version that has not altered any messages for 1800 years. I personally like the KJV. I am sorry you have been caught up in this cult Taz. Surely you can reason that God would not allow His word to be taught incorrectly for 1800 years and then decide that a young man of 18 in the 1800s would now enlighten the world and begin to teach it "correctly". If you are a JW you are taught that you must work your way to eternal life, this is totally against the gospel of Jesus Christ. I pray you can escape in time Taz, but I know that it could mean outcasting by your loved ones if they too are deceived by this cult. Outcasting is a part of many false religions and cults. It is a weapon used to keep the people in line and the money coming in. I personally know some JWs, so I know their rules and their consequences for leaving. Such an evil trap to hold your family hostage against you.


    God Bless, praying for you.

    bluedeath

    Is the "true Bible version" written in Hebrew or Latin? Every translated version of every document I have ever read had inconsistencies between languages and cultures that if not read in the original text, contains discrepancies of ideas based on either local culture or ideas that were not included in the translated text. That is why so many people have so many different versions of the Flood story, mentioned in Bibles, even though the story goes back much further in human history. But then again, the Bible is perfect and contains everything anyone ever needs to appreciate the deity.

    friendindeed

    Well said.

    I answer your question with a question ... why does a mom quit cooking and cleaning an doing laundry for her kids? ... They have to make the desition to take care of their sevles,live with their own conciquinses.

    Jenn

    I cant make you see what I see or understand what it is that I beleive I understand. I am very pleased that you ask questions. That is how my journey began. I know that i could not raise billions apon billions of children with out allowin gthem to work out there own issues. But I also do not see deathas the end of life... that my be the reason i see Gods will as just.

    bluedeath

    Ah, so what you are saying is the "Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent." is the weak part of the quote because as a parent, he would allow evil, people like Hitler, so as to get us to live with our consequences? Hmm. The idea that you must allow the kids to fail to grow makes perfect sense, but to take it to the extreme of allowing millions of Jews to die during the Holocaust, just to get us to live with the consequences, seems to me to be child abuse. But maybe you are right, that a god must go to extremes to prove a point. Or am I misunderstanding your argument?

    bluedeath

    I am glad you completed your journey. But it must be lonely having all the answers and not being able to share them. I wish I could somehow get some of your conviction and believe. Unfortunately, my mind refuses to let go of the inconsistencies found not only in the Christian religion, but in all religions.

    bluedeath

    Jenn, I really would like you to comment on my counter argument about allowing millions of Jews to be murdered by the Nazi's. It seams to me that they were innocent, especially the children, the mentally insane, and the children with variations of downs that Hitler also sent to the gas chambers, or just put bullets in their heads in front of parents and loved ones. No, I don't see that as a compassionate God allowing us mortals to "work it all out on our own." I call that gross negligence on the part of a God.

    bluedeath

    The other problem I have with your last comment is that you are not a god. If you were, you would not have any problems raising billions of children because, you are a god! If a god cannot handle a few billion mortals, insects, animals, plants, rocks, stars, planets, comets, asteroids, trillions of grains of sand, weather, volcanoes, etc, etc., then what right does he have being called a god?

    Why not God?

    Its simple why a God People need to cry out too ! God Help Me or God Dammit The 1st being the better of the two

    oh . . . Mr Deathly now I know the death part . . it is ignorance of God.

    bluedeath

    Yes, you are absolutely correct. I am ignorant of your God. I had hoped you could somehow help me, but I must have been wrong about that too. Maybe next time...

    The whole point, oh shallow one, is that the very life presence in a man is the Presences of God. Only silly fools like you and your god Epicurus, would have the gall to question or judge this, by asking by what authority or right God may be called God. Stay a simplton it is your lot, to stay the simpleton for a while, as you glory yourself in the crumbs that have fallen from the table of the Great Ones understanding nothing, and hearing nothing even when it to comes freely to you! Your shallow, arrogant thumbs down means nothing save to show yourself as a phoney intellectual, trying to dominate this site. One who has skimmed a couple of books, adding nothing, except to to try to glorify yourself on this site. I feel only pity for your closed mind and your tyrannous ignorance. I tried three times to connect with you honestly . . . Hummm . . . oh well . . . heh . . . heh . . again I have wasted the pearls. Nevertheless I go on. ;)

    bluedeath

    I have no god. Epicurus was a philosopher, not a god. As for "trying to dominate this site," I am not trying to dominate this site, but it is my question that I raised, making it fair game that I respond to people who respond to my question in order to set up a dialog that hopefully will be enlightening in some way or another. As far as being a "phoney" intellectual, I think the word you were trying to spell was "phony" intellectual (but I digress)...

    bluedeath

    To put it in words you may better understand:


    Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be in danger of being judged; and he who says to his brother, Raca, will be in danger from the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, You foolish one, will be in danger of the hell of fire."


    Epicurus and his followers are mentioned in the Bible too, or did you miss that too? But what do I know, I'm just a foolish "phoney" intellectual atheist who must never have read the Bible or any other documents from antiquity. Legend of Gilgamesh anyone?

    bluedeath

    But again, I digress: Just because you may be having a hard time putting together a lucid argument about the quote I asked about should not make you as upset as it seems to be. Once you calm down and regroup, I would be happy to discuss it further with you. But for now, take a breather, count to one hundred, and take a chill pill, and read your Bible, thank your God, ask for forgiveness, and pray for me and the rest of the sinners, then come back to the page and write something that demonstrates the intelligence I am sure you are capable of. Until then, pleasant dreams.

    Blue One - Before I speak on this, please let be known I do not ask anyone to believe anything I say, nor do I seek to convert, argue, or impose on anyone those things I have been given or have come to understand. Nor do I seek to defend myself in these things only to share with any who can hear my words. I do know of the things of which you speak, when speaking of worldly shape of such things, and the objective views thereof, are clear and concise in their space. It is thus I do admire your tenacity and passion in these things, as I love them also. for without them I would have had no doorway to seek thier higher cause. Times are irrevelent, in the Time Sphere of existence, where journeys the soul pass through that space called eternity. For it is but a place in the Ineffable (God). Forgive me, but I am indeed in this world at present subject to an earthy master (chuckles) my wife who needs me to help her run her errands. I will get back to this when I come back. LOL ;)

    Blue One - because such things are Subjective, received by the Higher Mind, Intuitive Mind therefore understood intuitively. They are beyond the physics of men, therefore beyond measure, but not beyond the Intuitive MIND of men(this is the secret and whole meaning of the 'Mysteries"). They are not phenomenal but Metaphysical. You will connect with this one day and be amazed, for it is the unwritten book of books and it is in you. Presently you are mostly (but not all) a parrot of the objective world, the illusion.

    Gabalis

    Blue One, that of which I speak is in you, the very life in you, its voice is intuitive, beyond the objective world. Certainly you could understand if you knew this and who you are. You are yet guided of personality, which guyided by the "senses" can only objectify in a material world. Therefore it is impossible to understand, that which is reserved for the Soul alone, which is Subjective. Find your true self and you will be able to penetrate the depths, freely.

    Gabalis

    . . . not knowing or understanding these things is the darkness of ignorance. Scholarships, simly educated knowledge without understanding, is just ignorance raised up to its new position and more dangerous than pure ignorance. Scholarships are most often in these concepts just the doctrines and commandment of men and the world and the world is full of parrots, quoting quoting, everyone but themselves. No personal revelations, no new light drawn from the light of their teachers.

    Gabalis

    Oh Blue One . . . Hummm . .. the "personality" has chosen to be sensitive and hurt, ever the last resort, that ws not my intent . . . I too, could quote, quote, quote. But, one must at some point, after the seeking and research, draw their "own Light" Inner-Light, from the effort. It is thus one honors those writers, teachers or better Revelators. You must transcend fundamentalism, for though it is a beginning it becomes a stagnent dead end without, epiphany or revelation. Jesus, the Christed, was crucified in this cause, by fundamentalists. Don't be hurt :)

    Gabalis

    . . . The Spirit is ever progessive, not stagnated in the dry bones of the historic past. It lives in the hearts of men not in the literality of dusty books, ancient or new, save their motivating esoterics, their motivating influence. That which inspires men to true understanding. Look up, research the words you don't understand before judging them. Open you mind and heart.

    bluedeath

    Interestingly put. So what you are telling me is that the subjective nature of the matter makes it impossible to understand by mortals like me because they are indescribable and unknowable? If so, why is there a Bible or Karan or all the studies of religion? Nirvana and Heaven are supposed to be similar. How does one get to either if not by accepting and learning and loving? Does a person have to be aware of God to gain entrance, or can ignorance be bliss. And if so, if we cannot know such matters, doesn't that make us all ignorant? Or does it make us all blissful?

    bluedeath

    I take issue with you insinuating I don't know who I am. But more so, I find it presumptuous of you to say that education is more dangerous than ignorance.
    Your argument about senses is the same one Ptoloemy made 2,500 years ago in Greece. 2,000 years later, the argument was disproven during the Enlightenment and the Columbian exchanges, showing that while the dark ages arguments made sense metaphysically, the study of the natural philosophies (sciences) required experimentation to fully develop better understandings of our world and the universe.
    Ignorance is not bliss.

    bluedeath

    If you are are referring to me as being sensitive or hurt, fear not. But you have not convinced me that ignorance of any subject is preferable to learning about that subject. After all, how can a person have revelations about any subject without first having a basis of understanding of it first? I would however agree that at some point when doing historical research, some basic understanding can be made after analyzing as many documents concerning the subject as possible given whatever time constraints the researcher might be under...

    bluedeath

    I also agree that a person should look up words and ideas before judging them, and I have an open mind. But that being said, I did draw my own conclusions concerning this quote and did present my own argument on this site, and on this section. Please look it up and give a counter argument if you would like. Now, as far as the rest of what you wrote, I need to point out once again...The original quote had nothing to do with Christianity because Jesus would not have been born for at least 250 years after the quote. What does that mean? It invalidates every Christian argument for this discussion.

    bluedeath

    And by invalidating, I mean to say that any discussion should be about the quote being discussed. For example: Epicurus was asking when can a person or thing or god be considered a God? What are the parameters of god? In other words, if a man walked up to you on the street and claimed to be The God, how would you evaluate that? This is important because many people over the years have followed men who claimed to be messiahs. While you may argue that they were not, it is irrelevant. What is relevant is how a god could be evaluated? In other words, when is a god, a God?

    bluedeath

    I am not asking you to evaluate your God or The God if you like, but rather, hypothetically, what is a God?

    BLUE ONE - athough I appreciate your scholarly researches, as they are ecellent, reflecting the journey of the True seeker. That your open mind shines bright,is evident. But there comes a time one must step back and let all the knowledge ferment, for such is simply the instruments or tools collected that one might come to Understanding. Understanding is the Light of knowledge, just as knowledge was the light of ignorance. And the Light of Understanding is Wisdom by its application. For it is then the blossom of your own Revelations of the Truth, born of your own Virgin Wisdom, which will transcend the doctrines and commandments of men and the world. For the only Truth is Love and all that it embodies. We speak of Love not as men of the world say love but Spirit. Now, (Chuckles) about Good and God as an interchangeable essence or power, let suffice to say that this is the reality subliminal though it may be, it transcends all cultures and languages. For what is Good is God and there is none Good but God. God is the very Shape and Presence of Good (not as men say Good but Spirit). There are many names for the ONE and ONLY; He who has no name being Ineffable, yet He is the cause of the All and many names known and unknown. Namasta, Namaskar or "The Spirit in I salutes the Spirit in you."

    bluedeath

    Interestingly, you say there is a tie to step back and allow knowledge to ferment and I agree, every time I go to sleep, or use the toilet, or rake the leaves, or drive any distance in my car, my mind begins to wander and I let it, within limits of course, I am driving a car and don't want to have a wreck. But as Socrates asked, what is wisdom? Who is wise? And how is that wisdom used? From what Plato says of Socrates, it was apparent he found no one who he thought was wise in a land of brilliance. But with the advent of computer communications, I hope to succeed where Socrates failed.

    bluedeath

    So that being the case, who are the wise men of today and why are they wise?

    Bluedeath (interesting choice of identity) Certainly I can understand your consternation, as my statement did blend quantum physics and metaphysics(meaning beyond the physical). Though they rarely conterdict one another. In fact the new priestcraft might be said to be Science and scientists, for the masses believe without a doubt its postulations saying "science says this and science says that!" having great faith in its future. The only difference is mainly in termology, just different words for the same things. Quantum Physics would seem to be the first and most obvious mending of the two. That of scientic teachings with spiritual teachings. Of course the Ancients were first, their formulas just happened to be verbal, metaphors, parables, homilies, canticles, etc. to be solved within every man in his time. Whereas scientifically, their formulas are mathmatical, both seeking for the truth, who are we where did we come from. Both climbing the mountian seeking to reach the peak of truth, although near the top science is finding the hands of the Ancients reaching down to help them up. Apologies, although relevant, got side tracked from your specific question. Scientifically, we are all energy forms, Metaphically (Spiritually) we are Spirit or Soul (though there is a difference between these regards individuation) forms. Both believe in the Everlasting, energy never dies it just travels finding union with yet more energy. It is the same with Life, Spirit and God. The Soul is a gift of indiuviduality come of Spirit allows for self awarness; Consciousness. Science man are a part of the greater scheme of the universe, Spiritually, we are all One in God, which is the GOOD of the Plan or Scheme. :)

    Gabalis

    Blue One - Hummmmm . . . you certainly puts around in a lot of things, but you yet skate on the surface of it all words and concepts, the depths are in understanding, your presentations purely fundamental. Sadly I must recend my praise on you having achieved an open mind. Wordy ofuscation, the shield, protecting you from exposure. Understanding penetrates into the depths by reason.

    bluedeath

    Bluedeath is in response to having the blues, and killing them with wonder and amazement anywhere I can find it. Originally, it was supposed to be Bluesdeath, but in my typing, I messed it up and I was stuck with Bluedeath. But anyway, getting back to your response, I would have to say quantum physics has more in common with Taoism than Christianity. In fact, one of my favorite books is called the Tao of Physics. Also, I really dislike when anyone types things like, "Science says" or History tells us, because neither is true. What is better to say is, according to the "Inverse Square Law..."

    bluedeath

    Another thing that messes with my mind as a Historian is when students say, "the book says..." No, the book does not say, the author Susan Ronald claims Philip II helped place Elizabeth I on the throne after Bloody Mary died because Elizabeth, although Protestant, was better than allowing the French to control England under Mary, Queen of Scotts. I hope that clarifies my position about the Bible too because many people reference the Bible by saying, "The Bible Says..." when they should say, John wrote that...

    bluedeath

    Now, getting back to your comment directly about energy forms, while I would agree we are all made up of energy in the form of matter, I would point out that energy does dissipate, getting weaker the further away it travels from the source. In most cases, it uses a similar Inverse Square Law first described by Robert Hooke in 1678 and then written down and published by Sir Isaac Newton in 1686 when attempting to describe gravity. Today, that same ISL is used in radiation fields, and countless others too.

    bluedeath

    Now, speaking of metaphysics: while I agree it is a wonderful branch of philosophy dealing with people used to call, the natural philosophies, aka what we call science today, I find it difficult to substantiate, "Both believe in the Everlasting" because neither science nor metaphysics have consciousness, meaning they cannot believe in anything because those two things are themselves just ideas, and not life forms which go back to my earlier comments about clarity. Who is it that believes in the Everlasting energy when energy itself becomes so weak over time and distance it tends to become...

    bluedeath

    imperceptible? Granted, with the best equipment, a scientist could arguably find energy residue left over after x-rays striking a disk produces breaking and scatter radiation, but after a short time, that energy is no longer present, and has been either absorbed, scattered, or so weak it can no longer be measured because the intensity of the radiation is inversely proportional to the square of the distance, allowing very accurate measurements of that radiation for whatever distance you want to measure. So I am confused why or how if it is the same as God, as you say, that

    bluedeath

    "It is the same with Life, Spirit and God." then why would these three things not dissipate too, just as energy in the form of x radiation does with distance, time, and shielding? Although energy does fade, I would agree that matter does not, but rather changes form trying to find its simplest and most stable form, even if that means releasing energy to change that matter from a radioactive, to a non-radioactive form. For example, Radium to Barium. That being the case, if there are limits to a God, as Epicurus put it, then why call Him a God?

    bluedeath

    Hmmmmmm, Gabalis, I am sad that you must "recend" your praise, although I am not looking for it either. I'm not sure what you were trying to say with the sentence, "Wordy ofuscation, the shield, protecting you from exposure." I understand unclear words obscure understanding, but if you are trying to say I use exacting language to shield myself from exposing myself from understanding truth, you are mistaken.

    All such teachings are just two sides of the same coin, viewed either Exoterically or Esoterically.

    Gabalis

    You won't have had to post that comment if you did understand. I am simply sharing what I have been given to understand other wise why would I care. Don't be so parnoid. Apparently you have had trouble with government, everybody has, it is sucking the middle class dry LOL

    Gabalis

    Randy, don't be so hard on yourself, the words I use are english, it is simple to look them up, and learn. As far as common sense, it is not given, it has to be "learned." What is common sense to a truck driver or a doctor, or an athelete, etc. I am not trying to hurt any one just sharing, and hoping it will help someone. God Bless you, be at peace.

    Gabalis

    Our beloved Christ, spoke in an esoteric manner, giving his gift wrapped in "Papables" and called them the "keys to the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven." The gift is for all those who truly seek to solve them; reserved for them, not the exclusive property of any teaching system. for you when you are ready. Exoteric is literal and more common to any fundamentalistic system, but we all must start some wnd ever question. It was fundamentalists that curcified our beloved brother Jesus.

    Gabalis

    Blue One, There are many, one but have an open mind to hear them, and in the end they can only guide or help point you the right direction to the greatest teacher within you, your own true self. Transcended of personality; the Pretender.

    Headless Man

    I believe more people understand things than you give credit for, are you in government?

    Headless Man

    Exoterically: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
    Esoterically: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
    That is the definition I got, same thing, people with a specialized knowledge would only understand.

    Headless Man

    God showed early people great things (people witnessed these things) and still they fell away. In JESUS time he showed great healing and miracles (people witnessed these things) still they fell away. Today great miracles are all around us (people witnessed these things) still they Refuse to believe. Why, I can't say other than no one likes rules. Love,Randy

    bluedeath

    You claim all such teachings are two sides of the same coin. What teachings are what would be the coin? In other words, what is the subject matter being taught, and who are the teachers?

    bluedeath

    The god you speak of Gabalis, is not the gods written about in the original quote. But even so, from my understanding, the "gift" you refer to is given to those who give up trying to understand and just accept the words and teaching of Christ. If that is true, then the most truly blessed seem to me to be the ones who struggle with the questions the most. If that is true, then I will struggle some more to understand because when our discussions are over, I hope to be blessed with a greater understanding. And if my understanding leads to the acceptance of a God as my savior, then great!

    bluedeath

    But if not, that just means my journey to self awareness and understanding must continue, and that is not a terrible thing either because it is in the journey where true happiness comes, not the completion of the journey. I wax poetic, because while I do not believe in a God or Gods, I truly want to understand why so many do, and how they came to the conclusion, and what it all means. So that being the case, why have gods changed from society to society over time if there is only one god?

    bluedeath

    Again, I ask, if there is only one god, why has its presentation changed throughout history?

    God is not evil, the word is derived from the word GOOd (or vise/versa) It is men that are evil by misuse of the creative power given to them in trust; a conscious mind and the freewill to use it, for Good (God) or evil (ignorant men).

    bluedeath

    The earliest written form of the Germanic word god comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus. The English word itself is derived from the Proto-Germanic * ǥuđan. Most linguists agree that the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European form * ǵhu-tó-m was based on the root * ǵhau(ə)-, which meant either "to call" or "to invoke".[4] The Germanic words for god were originally neuter—applying to both genders—but during the process of the Christianization of the Germanic peoples from their indigenous Germanic paganism, the word became a masculine syntactic form.[5]

    bluedeath

    The capitalized form God was first used in Ulfilas's Gothic translation of the New Testament, to represent the Greek Theos. In the English language, the capitalization continues to represent a distinction between monotheistic "God" and "gods" in polytheism.[6][7] In spite of significant differences between religions such as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, the Bahá'í Faith, and Judaism, the term "God" remains an English translation common to all. The name may signify any related or similar monotheistic deities, such as the early monotheism of Akhenaten and Zoroastrianism.

    bluedeath

    When used in English within a community with a common monotheistic background, "God" always refers to the deity they share. Those with a background in different Abrahamic religions will usually agree on the deity they share, while still differing on details of belief and doctrine—they will disagree about attributes of [the] God, rather than thinking in terms of "my God" and "your (different) God".

    bluedeath

    Of course this was from Wikipedia, but is essentially the same for the information I found in Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, and the Origin of Words Dictionary. If you have some reference backing up your interpretation, I would love to see it so I can do further research. Ideally, that would be some primary document from before the 6th century using the word God in context backing up your claim. But I will allow secondary sources provided they are legitimate and scholarly.

    Jeffery -= your profound ignorance is demonstrated by your words, you are transparent, you are frustrated, miserable, and you need a place to dump it, so you dump on serious souls. You are not alone there are others that do it here also, particularly where holy things are concerned. All are are transparent, as are you. You haven't figured anything out for yourself yet, you despise those that have, those that are honestly seeking. It is thus you are magnet for and collection of foulness, anger, hate, no faith. not even in yourself, you are separated from your own Inner-divinity (Conscience), which weeps at every foul thought, word, and deed. Its no wonder you are so unhappy:( To understand is to believe; not to believe is not to understand. In other words, to say one does not belive a thing and not to understand it is to be a hypccrite; to say one believes a thing they do not understand also is the mark of a hypocrite. Your unhappiness suggests it is time to begin an honest search for the truth of yourself, then you may know God.

    Alright, here is my response: While I believe Jenn came closest with her response, I cannot agree with here completely because while Jenn basically compared God to a parent who allows a child to make mistakes in order to grow, I found it difficult to agree that a "god" would allow the millions of innocents to die in the Holocaust because of a murderous madman named Hitler.


    But after waiting for Jenn's response, I was disappointed when she wrote back stating, "I cant make you see what I see or understand what it is that I beleive I understand. I am very pleased that you ask questions. That is how my journey began. I know that I could not raise billions apon billions of children without allowing them to work out their own issues. But I also do not see death as the end of life... that my be the reason I see Gods will as just," because she missed the most obvious counter-point, which is what I will now address as my answer to the quote:


    That weakest part of the quote is, "Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent." because by definition, malevolent means wishing to do evil to others. If Jenn is right, that God really is looking to allow mankind to grow one person at a time, then while He could control mankind as an aggregate if he chose too, he does not to because He would rather allow each individual person to make up his mind about everything, including the existence of God and what religion to practice, and how to live his life.


    I hope everyone enjoyed this quote and question. If it gave anyone a chance to critically re-examine their own beliefs in a critical way, because then I believe my question will have served its purpose. I look forward to future engagements with all of you and wish you all the best. If you liked the discussion, arguments, critical thinking exercise, or wish to continue discussing this particular question, please continue to post responses, but now that school is starting back up on Monday after this wonderful Spring Break loaded with thousands of deaths in Japan, I'll be concentrating on my school work once again.


    Oh, and if you did enjoy the discussion, how about some thumbs up?

    Out of interest i'd like to ask a question of all those who firmly believe in a christian god.I'm an agnostic,I'm pretty sure there isn't a god but accept i can't know that for certain and may be wrong,I'm not asking to ridicule the true believers or be contenious but am genuienly interested in what you're opinions are.
    Assuming there is a christian god and i've understood this right that he gave us the ability to think for ourselves wanting us to acknowlege him and christ of our own free will therefore being saved.Does this mean those who don't believe in him burn in hell.Do the like of Epicuras who never heard of christianity,likewise those from 3000+ years ago have gone to hell.What of my father,one of the real genuine good men i've met who's done so much good for many yet is an atheist will go to hell whereas a violent rapist who accepts god goes to heaven????

    bluedeath

    Very good questions fastbob72. So how about it folks, will a convicted murderer who repents and gets baptized of his sins just before death, be saved? Throughout history, Kings would wait until their deathbed to be baptized for that very reason. What do the rest of you think?

    .hello everyone:the spirit no the spirit,and the flash no the flash.its not about flash,and blood.i believe this is why God want us to forgive one another,and forgive yours sift.there is a spirit war going on,on earth.so when the name of God,or Jesus name come up,the demons in the body of the protest persons think thy are filling this way, because thy do not no God,but the demon hate God, because the demon has to leave your body.now the demons have to find another body to polarizes.anger person,confused person--etc.

    God MUST exist. Without God people would not be good and fair. We need God to exist for humanity. God is our path to the after life. Humanity must become Godly. We must all banish evil from our souls so that we can enter without intrusion. Believe what you may. We all need to achieve this.

    Gabalis

    Mortuzac . . Indeed, God is all that is and all that is not; God is our very Life in this physical experience, for he is the Everlasting Life, men so covet. What do you think is packing this pile of dirt (body&personality)around? To be Human is to express the divine part of mankind. In the essence this is the DIVINE part of Man-"kind." That which trancends the animal part. This again is the expression of the Godly part, Spirit. To know this within will be expressed in Peace and Love; the Father and the Son within. Rejoice in the knowing! :)

    Because He is a benevolent Father Who wants to give us freedom. There, He has to allow for choice in all our lives. Therefore, events happen, both good and bad. BTW God woke me up out of a sound sleep to come here. You just posted 23 seconds ago.


    Darling, your Daddy loves you more than you could ever realize.


    He gave His Son to die in your place for your sins. So that whoever believed on Jesus may never have to go to Hell.


    Besides, how would you know the glory of Heaven has you not had to suffer on Earth?


    X and O from your Father.

    bluedeath

    Eh, yeah. Please do not call me darling. I am not your darling; nor are you my Daddy. Only my wife is allowed to call me darling, thank you. Now back to your comment: You said, "He has to allow for choice in all our lives." Why? Why must a God do anything? Is there some type of universal or natural law that a god must follow saying he HAS to allow for choice in our lives? Again, why? That statement does not make any sense to me. Please explain.

    Sorry gabalis but from your comment to jeffery you are the hypocrite , what happened to love thy neighbour as yourself? Or cant you stand youself , are you tranparent, frustrated,havent you "figured anything out" are you a magnet for foulness OH! I give up you appear to have no time for any comments that are in the least anti or doubtful about christianity. You may be correct in your belief in some supreme being but not everyone is so what gives you the right to condemn them "Vengence is mine said the lord" You bible readers quote out of context to suit yourselves.

    Gabalis

    Too quickly and you speak for your self. One must at least once in a while stand up for the truth, and strongly, in spite of repercussions, such as yours. I can bear any such judgement, without a flinch. Sometime a strong tap on the shoulder to shake the dark spirit of ignorance loose. You cottle, by nurturing this lost one who is just looking to make issues for attention. You apparently agree with the language and the ignorance. And Oh' by the way, if you haven't noticed, though you heart may be in th right place, you have just done the same thing. :)

    Gabalis

    . . . and lastly he is a troll who has sucked both in LOL

    Blue One :) Consider subjectively, that all men are essentially two and yet one. The "son of man," being the flesh or body and the "Son of God," being the Essential Life within. In other words the Essence of mystical Energy packing this pile of dirt (body) around. The former to be the servant (personality,) the latter the Master (an In-Spirited Soul). The body is corruptible and passing; it decays comming to an end; indeed for the temporal body it is dust to dust. While the Spirited/Soul is everlasting. Thus the struggle for dominance begins; the personality or pretender vs the true man or divine self within. Two minds, outward: carnal and passing; Inward: the individuated Soul/Spitit. This struggle is upward through seven levels of consciousness each enhancing the former, up lifting the former. These are 1.) Ignorance, 2.) knowledge, 3.)Understanding, 4.) Wisdom, 5.) Truth, and the final and only truth, 6.) LOVE which is Christ Consciousness thus has one achieved 7.) Harmony in both worlds. The Light of Ignorance is Knowledge, the Light of knowledge is understanding, of the light of understanding, is wisdom, the light of wisdom the truth, the light of truth, Love, then the blessing of Harmony. When one has attend knowledge but does not understand, this is ignorance raised to its new station. For knowledge is not understanding, but only the tools whereby one may achieve or arrive at understanding, for one first must have something to understand, and so on. The achievement of Wisdom is in the application of understanding. Each can be a great danger if one does not listen to ones conscience, the conquences are great, because when one knows what is right, good and true and goes against it in thought and deed, ones world will become a hell of ones own making, not God. Better such a one should remained ignorant, that is not knowing any better, for one cannot win when going against ones own true self. The temptor is always the personality by its sensual desires of the worlds.

    bluedeath

    And what does this have to do with the quote? Please explain using parts of the quote to better explain your position.

    Bluedeath, two forces = two polarites. Quantum Physics, are the Centrifugal, the outgoing force, Electric (it is factor X and containing the missing quantum, the "CENTRAL" of your question, unil proven otherwise) and the Centripetal, the ingoing force, Megnetic. Therefore the Centrifugal is positive and Masculine in nature, while the Centripetal is negative Feminine in nature. The former is Outward the latter is Inward. Therefore all bodies are masculine being the substance or advent of matter (Physical) while all souls are feminine being an essence, energy or spirit if you will. Thus all, of the man-kind, embody both the feminine and the masculine polarities (we do not speak here as yet of physical gendre's, but purely polarities.) But it is the Soul that is the final solution, as it being the inward force is drawn inward and upward to its source, union with the Father God. THe masculine was the servant which guided and housed the soul unto its journey in the Matter world; the physical world. The problem and testing of the soul is with the body and its "personality" which gives it identity in that physical world. It is the pretender as it comes to tink it is the One and it isn't. If the Soul has given over the Spirtual Will to the Body, then it is in danger unles it gets it back. When this happens this is the true "REDEMPTION OF THE SOUL for it is no long a slave or servant to the desires of the body and the world. The Spirit is now the Master and the body and personality the servant. Fantastic!

    bluedeath

    Quarks aside, and until Cern is up and running the idea that central forces must be magnetic continue to be debated just as the idea that the eleven dimensions exist concurrently. I find the argument that the transitional missing quantum central to my question at odds with your final argument about the missing being labeled as either masculine or feminine because those ideas seem to be at odds with current investigations at Fermi Lab, outside of Chicago. But either way, to jump from quantum physics to the idea that somehow this is where the soul is hiding difficult to fathom. Please elaborate.

    Not to rain on the original post.. I am no christian, but lessons in life evolve around how you deal with problems.. and learning form your own mistakes.. if there was no evil or negative energy, then there would be no lesson. No wisdom. It's balance.. read the Tao, not the bible.

    anonymous_sender

    The bible says in one million words what the tao says in five thousand. It simplifies your understanding of balance, and it was written by the great 'Liatsu' (which could be spelled wrong).. the origins of the bible is dubious to say the least. The origins of the tao are noted in chinese history, and it was written thousands of years before the bible. Ancient chinese wisdom is based off of it. It is not an exchange, it is a complete replacement.

    bluedeath

    Read the Tao? I was not aware of a single book called Tao. But even so, to exclude one book in favor of another when dealing with philosophical ideas seems counterproductive. My favorite books on Taoism are the Tao of Pooh, the Te of Piglet, and the book that compares Quantum Physics to Taoism called the Tao of Physics. Both are amazing looks into a workable lifestyle based on the journey, verses the completion of that trek.

    They are very good questions bluedeath, and they deserve answers.
    But whether you get the right answers or not depends as much on YOUR attitude as it does on your mentor.
    As you probably have heard the Egyptians had a book of the dead.
    But TRUE Christians have a BOOK OF LIFE. By true Christians I am not referring to Holy Joes, bible punchers, or custard Christians. [People who make issues over trifles.) In a recent survey it as estimated that there were some 37,000 different religions contradicting each other and these are only the ones claiming to be Christian. Small wonder there is skepticism and atheism!


    In contrast the bible claims there is only One True God, one Lord Jesus, one faith, one baptism. Who is telling the truth? (Romans 3:4) . . .let God be found true, though every man be found a liar. . .
    So you can ask all the different religions what they believe and finish up with however many different answer. (That's the Sheer-luck Holmes method.) Or you can start reading the bible yourself and that is going to take you a long time and you are going to drive yourself potty.


    There are on this planet 107,000 communities on this planet that know the answer to those questions. That is to say there are 107,000 annexes to what is not the largest University on Earth.
    In more than half a century of searching I have never found anyone else that did. So what you do is you seek out your local Kingdom Hall and ask for a free copy of the book, 'What does the Bible Really teach?' and if you also open minded enough to ask for help from a mentor The elders will pair you up with somebody with a proven teaching track record. This is the True Gods 21st Century arrangement for the survival of the human race. You can find them online at www.watchtower.org They are publishing in some 500 languages and you can download for free in multiple formats.


    Kindest Regards


    Taz Bestway

    Felicia

    First I would say that God is omnipotent, but for argument sake I do not believe it matters because God gave us freedom of choice. It is our free will that will determine if we are good or bad. It is also our free will that lets us decide if we believe or not. This is why we have good and evil without both there would be no choices to make and free will would be useless.

    Felicia

    Yes you are right but you cannot have good without bad in any regard.
    Free will is for like you said occupations, families, artistic creations and so on. well we have good and bad occupations we also have good and not so good artists. If we did not have god and bad to compare we would not have first, second or third place. If everyone created a masterpiece no one would have the drive to do better or change anything.

    Headless Man

    bluedeath, How many of the ten commandments have you broke? That's freewill your choice to obey or not and we all have broken some of the commandments in our life. So GOD sent his SON (THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE) so we can have everlasting life through him in heaven. OK, Love Randy

    bluedeath

    I agree that everyone should read the Bible, the Karan, the Book of Mormon, and the Bahai faith texts. But I also believe you should read anything you can find on Taoism, and Buddhism, and I have read all these texts an many other ancient texts that describe the floods and other creation myths. That being said, in the quote above, Epicurus is not talking about a Christian god, but I maintain this Greek text is important today as it was then. please give a response about that quote. Do you agree with his argument that if a God is not omnipotent, there is no reason to call him a God?

    bluedeath

    Interesting argument, Felicia. God gave us free choice to be good or bad, to believe or not, without good and evil free will would be useless? But isn't free will more than just choosing good over evil? Isn't free will also choosing an occupation, having or raising children to be responsible citizens, or the ability to create music, art, ideas, and conclusions? If so, then why have evil when there are so many other choices to make by free will?

    nothing is the begaining of somthing.you had no will to be born.so soomthing gave you life why?are you born just to die for nothing,i don"t think so.somthing brought you here for somthing to do somthing for him.you didn"t bring nothing,and you can take nothing. which is somthing with you to nothing.do we relly have control of our live if we came from nothing.you can drink water,but you can"t take it with you.bread, air,but can"t take it with you...ete.don"t put your trust in nothings. put your somthing in God that last forever.

    Was meant to be funny Gabalis but I have given an honest response on my position below that comment



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