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    so a nobel peace prize winner wants to use his army instead of diplomacy! why?

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    +3  Views: 953 Answers: 7 Posted: 10 years ago
    Colleen

    Moderator


    ___________________________________________________

    Grit Savage

    Just watched Obama pitching his reason for a "limited targeted" strike on Syria to the senate, "its time for america to act" he says! does this ring any bells??
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    bamba zonkie

    And you know how clever he is by so called asking Congress for permission, Which is just a huge ruse (IN REALITY HE DOES NOT CARE A FIG ) so that if things go wrong, which "trust me they will" He can spread the blame, I am hoping they will say "NO" which I am thinking he is hoping for so he can pull out. both scenarios he has it covered, It is so traumatising that he needs to go and play golf, "What should we read into that?
    Colleen

    Moderator
    He already said if they say no, he will send the missiles anyway. He claims he has the power to do so.
    bamba zonkie

    Yes I know but,he says no boots on the ground, this begs the question, Will they destroy the chemical stock pile with missiles? will that not spread the chemicals everywhere? how on earth could they secure and destroy, these stock piles without people to guard them,(If not destroyed they will end up in the wrong hands) whilst they would be safely destroyed?.I listened and watched on t/v the plea from Jim Cary very carefully, and he was very clever with the wording of his reply,It was what he failed to say that had all the meaning, when asked about boots on the ground, he said and I quote word for word "we will not have any have boots on the ground to influence the civil war" what he did not say was no boots on the ground at all, which means to my mind that they will send people (boots on the ground to secure the chemical stock piles) these boots on the ground will need other boots on the ground for their protection, and if they get attacked, which there is a 99% chance they will, hey presto America is again in the thick of it. I find it reprehensible that he needed to be so sneaky about it. Why not simply tell the truth? it does prove that they are serial compulsive liars I rest my case.

    7 Answers

    This is what happens when someone is just given the peace prize when he did absolutely nothing to earn it. He likes his war toys better than he does his peace prize. 


    Newsmax is running a poll about this with their readers. This is the results so far:


    Do you believe that the U.S. should strike Syria militarily for using chemical weapons?


    Yes....................30,432(16%)


    No........................................................................................156,443(83%)


    Should President Obama get Congressional approval before authorizing any strike?


    Yes, he needs Congressional approval.................................................................................167,132(89%)


    No, he does not...........19,701(10%)

    bamba zonkie

    It, in my opinion, at the final analysis ( at the end of the day) in the minds of our clever devious minded politicians this boils down to a choice of two things (a)"lets cause a war in the name of humanity" perfect opportunity to make our names in history as the sir Galahad (plural) of the 21st century. (b)"This will also serve to keep our peasants (US) so completely occupied they (US) will not worry about the total F*ck up we are making in their (OUR)financial and domestic lives" After all Tony Blair did it OK" SADLY FOR THEM (I HOPE) A FEW OF US HAVE OR ARE WAKING UP AT LAST HEY "READ OUR LIPS" NO MORE WARS THANK YOU!!Please simply calm down wait till the smoke clears away and then either welcome the new leaders or then send them to Hades, and allow them the privilege of paying for to purchase their own one way tickets, or what ever is prudent.
    Colleen

    Moderator
    It's all about the money. War is a business and a profitable one at that.

    I think most people here in the UK are against  us getting involved in any action against Syria, that was reflected by the vote in the Houses of Parlierment last week, for once the politicions listened to the people. Most people feel that you would not be changing things for the better if you got rid of assad, you may be helping to replace him with someone far worse. And we can't really afford another war .It makes me wonder how they (our politicions) think they can find the money without question to drop bombs  on people without even thinking about cost, when they don't have the money to repair the roads, which are full of pot holes and lumps, and our hospitals are unable to provide proper treatment for people in our own country.

    Because wiping out your opponents with conventional bombs is the civilized way of behaving. The use of chemicals is not. The extensive use of Napalm in Vietnam...er...notwithstanding.

    robertgrist

    Bombs are chemicals too. The angst on poison gas came out of WW1 as the after effects, inhumanity and the control of atmospheric drift...the way the wind blows. We see similar effects with bombs that are just as harmful like depleted uranium which affects everyone over time as a pollutant.
    We have a history of charging into war without considering meaningful alternatives or exhaustively examining all of the evidence carefully. These issues do not go to a world court for deliberation before handing down a verdict of prescribed action. No, we just mull it over, behind closed doors, while we the people wait to see what the grown-up folks in the other room decide whatever will be our fate. So suck-it-up children someone we choose will decide for us .
    mycatsmom

    When the U.S. gets in there, there will be twice as many dead bodies....including dead U.S. soldiers ! Look at Somalia .
    digger

    Except that American casualties pale in comparison.
    Afghanistan: 2200 US soldiers; 20,000 Afghan civilians
    Iraq:4500 US soldiers; 175,000 civilians
    Vietnam: 58,000 US soldiers; 400,000 civilians died by agent orange alone. Another 500,000 children were born with birth defects.Total civilian casualties estimated well over 1 million.
    robertgrist

    Yup, digger, we are great killers, no doubt there and we sure know how to spray-um too. If we stay out of Syria as Russia and China advise, we won't be medeling with Syrias's political games.

    follow the money trail . If you want to know why the gov / military/ industry   wants to do anything it usually boils down to money.  Right before Eisenhower left office, he warned the new  incoming administration and the country .......to " watch out for the ' military industrial complex ' ''  .

    In Syria we (USA) would be an invader and the whole country would back their government and kick us out like a flea bit dog. We better let them fight it out on their own and stay out of the way. 


    Our history of helping rebels opposed to their goverment has been disastrous for us and the people of those countries also. Viet-nam was a stupid, disaster  for us and the people of South Viet-Nam also. Our involvment polarizes the fight into a balance of power….us and them…..so we loose.    

    OIL.... plain and simple.

    Well, I'm no fan of president Obama and I don't think he should have been given the peace prize, but when to use diplomacy or military force is a complicated issue and one in which the public isn't well versed enough to make an educated guess. What we offer, as the general public, is a smattering of facts, as presented by the media and with it's bias', smothered in emotional content. Hardly, the basis for a pragmatic disposition. The beauty of living in a republic such as ours is that we are able to elect representatives that reflect our general positions with the knowledge that they will be educated on the issues and make intelligent decisions based on current reality. If they don't, hey there is the next election.


    Whether to use force or diplomacy is a very complicated. The unfortunate reality is that diplomacy usually doesn't work without force by the US. For example, diplomacy didn't work in Bosnia, Kosovo, Liberia, Sierra Leone until force by us was used. And it hasn't worked in most of the conflicts in which we had a strategic, economic , or humanitarian interest. We are the ones that promote democracy, humanitarian interest, and capitalism and the world expects us to help when we can, an idea we promoted. If we respond to global events as the isolationist want things will get worse for us, not better.


    That having been said, I'm reluctant to get involved in such a convoluted situation filled with reactionary opponents. But, this problem is one that was exacerbated by Obama's dithering during the whole process and his failure to act much earlier.  We have major interest in the middle east and can't afford for the Syrian problem to spread like a virus throughout the whole region. However, to ridicule the president for considering military action because he received the peace prize is naïve and emotional. Global situations ebb and flow, so to denigrate the use of military force because someone ordinarily supports diplomacy is absurd. Diplomacy usually requires the use of force or the threat of it's use. Does anyone really think that Iran will comply with our demands without the knowledge that we might respond militarily??

    ROMOS

    Lots of "WE" going on there, are "WE" the deciders in all things global?
    bigben

    Unfortunately, yes. Like I said, it's very complicated. As for the WE, of course it's we. Primarily because we are a republic and make decisions as a collective, in other words, WE. And we are the deciders because of our insistence on being so. We have vital interest in the region, we have obligations to allies in the area, we have a definite interest in keeping the Syria war from spreading. Add the fact that our ambiguous actions, so far, have irritated the situation.
    Like I said, I am reluctant to take military action, but whatever we do, this is definitely a WE situation.
    ROMOS

    But WE includes all your allies of which I live in a country that is one of them, but our government decided against any action of which I was very proud, let the Russians and the Chinese sort out Syria, keep it over there, too close to home for me personally.
    bigben

    Actually, I was speaking from an American point of view when I said that we make decisions as a collective republic, insist on being the deciders, have vested interest in the area, and would take military action which would be unilateral, most likely. Like I said, I'm reluctant to get involved, but I also think that all of us are fooling ourselves in thinking that we aren't going to be drawn into this mess. Neither the US or our allies can afford to let this conflagration spread into the entire area. Just economic reasons alone wont allow our disavowal of interference, no matter what any of us say now. When money talks people listen and history supports this contention. If it spreads you would be talking about Egypt (already a problem), Jordan, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran (also a current problem), Iraq and others. Also, the worlds economic recovery is fragile and would react adversely to such a large negative stimulus and would react quickly. Furthermore, as precarious as the economy is in the US, the European Unions is even more delicate. Nope, money will be the deciding factor. No matter how much you and I may want to avoid this, I fear it's going to happen. In fact, daren1 says it all with a simple economy of words. Oil
    ROMOS

    Warmongering rhetoric,can't stand it, sit there in your "republic" and enjoy the spoils of the victims of war,economy should be handled by every individual country that has a bad or a good one, yours is particularly BAD, sort it out internally, don't get involved too much with other countries problems.
    bigben

    Hardly war mongering. Humanitarian interest was the original reason for getting involved, at least on our part, and I said I was reluctant to get involved. I was trying to offer an objective opinion. But, you seem to be getting emotional about all of this, so I think that this will be my last response to you.
    ROMOS

    Not emotional mate, passionately against military interference, ex services, been seen done!


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