Chaplin Don
22 Answers
eggplant
Well, if we do not have a moral system, all earth would be hell. Parts of it are hell already and they have religion. It's not the religion it's the men and those who follow the religions.
There may be a Great Being of some kind, but I don't believe he's sitting on a cloud looking down.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 14 | |
I agreee with your analysis, my question is what would be the point of self restriction if there were no consequences?
" what would be the point of self restiction........."
Man's laws. What do you suppose keep's atheists in line now? Man's laws are instilled to protect the populous. Governments would still need slaves for the system and tax payers.
Man's laws. What do you suppose keep's atheists in line now? Man's laws are instilled to protect the populous. Governments would still need slaves for the system and tax payers.
The question immediatly comes down to "Which men's laws?" Men that like to beat and opress women and abuse children (unfortunatly, not a hypothetical). As far as atheists go, if they are consistent with their worldview (The vast majority are not) then they have disqualified themselves from any discussion of morality or ethical values, because whatever is, is. There can be no more value asribed to him than for a bacteria or any other entity that exists.
Gee you sound judgmental. How many atheists do you know exactly to cast such a claim?
Which man's laws is no different than which God's laws. You're trying to split hairs when the hair can't be split.
Not all men believe in the religious view that women are inferior. I blame religion for all the messes in the world. Once apon a time, women ruled the family. Then organized religion came along.......Organized religion should be outlawed. So too should preachers, ministers,fathers, priests, chaplains, rabbis or anyone who believes he is an authority on God or can answer for God. No man is an authority. No man can say "God said" because until God's voice reigns down from the heavens for ALL to hear, NO ONE can know what God says. I see where you are going with this question and I'm saying now, be careful how you tread.
Which man's laws is no different than which God's laws. You're trying to split hairs when the hair can't be split.
Not all men believe in the religious view that women are inferior. I blame religion for all the messes in the world. Once apon a time, women ruled the family. Then organized religion came along.......Organized religion should be outlawed. So too should preachers, ministers,fathers, priests, chaplains, rabbis or anyone who believes he is an authority on God or can answer for God. No man is an authority. No man can say "God said" because until God's voice reigns down from the heavens for ALL to hear, NO ONE can know what God says. I see where you are going with this question and I'm saying now, be careful how you tread.
A lot of hostility there. As well as alot of stereotyping and judgementalism. No one here is claiming be an authority on God. What I am an authority on is what I believe and why I believe it. If I'm stepping on toes out there, so be it. As for the threat, I'm sorry for you. If you are not able to have a civil discussion with some one with whom you dissagree then Perhaps this will be my last response to you. I was in fact enjoying our conversation up untill this point. Guess I miss read your comments.
You take things personally, don't you? I see no hostility and I speak broadly so no one can be overly offended. Take a look at some of that the religious folk have said on this forum over the past year and then you will understand what I said.
"If I'm stepping on toes out there, so be it"
Ego. Only ego tells you it's OK to step on others toes. Yet when you felt like your toes were stepped on, you howled and cried foul.
The "threat" as you call it,concerns the rules of this forum. No preaching, no holding sermon and no disrespecting another's beliefs or non beliefs. I feel you are close to these. It's a warning, not a threat. Be careful how you tread.
I see nothing uncivil in what I posted here. You may be a bit overly sensitive. My apologies if I hurt your feelings.
"If I'm stepping on toes out there, so be it"
Ego. Only ego tells you it's OK to step on others toes. Yet when you felt like your toes were stepped on, you howled and cried foul.
The "threat" as you call it,concerns the rules of this forum. No preaching, no holding sermon and no disrespecting another's beliefs or non beliefs. I feel you are close to these. It's a warning, not a threat. Be careful how you tread.
I see nothing uncivil in what I posted here. You may be a bit overly sensitive. My apologies if I hurt your feelings.
doolittle
It has been a long time since I studied philosophy. I do remember some philosophers who did not believe in God +/or Religion. One thought was that societies create rules (like the 10 Commandments) and laws to keep people in line, and punish them if they get out of line.
I ponder Our human History. I Ponder people(s) who, under the Name of God, have slaughtered thousands of people. I ponder Not only Hitler but his many followers (Many who clearly stated their belief in God) and the 6 million Jews + others they tortured and killed in the most evil of ways.
So, I'm not sure a belief in God keeps people from evil...it seems to just give them a lable to use to justify their evil.
Not everyone- clearly. But the examples are numerous.
and I'm not talking about all the other countless ways "we" ignore God and go about doing what we please to do -even when it brings harm to others.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 12 | |
daren1
It almost sounds like the world we live in now, not all follow their conscience..
| 12 years ago. Rating: 11 | |
Not all these people you speak of are non believers. You will find that a great many at least believe in God and a great many of those will claim to follow some sort of religion, yet some of those still do not follow their conscience.
Shootah
Ed1530
If you’re only being ethical and moral for God and for God alone and there was no God and if you don’t care about your family, friends, kids and yourself then no their is know reason at all to be ethical or moral. A lot of people are in prison for that very reason.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 11 | |
The question is not so much who or what you are concerned to please or protect, it is where does the inclination to care about anything other than your own self intrests come from?
Colleen
There will always be laws to guide and control a civilization. There will always be a fear factor used to control others because there will always be power needy people to set down the laws. Belief in God does not always keep people living right or living with morals. How many wars have happened over the history of man on earth that were due to religious beliefs of belief in a God that it's followers believe/d is the only God? There will always be people who simply want to do good because they are good. They would be the ones to set the moral standards to live by. Even Atheists can have morals. They may not believe in a God but they have the ability to believe in their fellow beings and believe that life should be good, happy and filled with love. Love can just as powerful as any God. Sure, love can be used to control others but so can a belief in a God be used to control others. I think you would see the same as you see now in a universe without a belief in a God or Gods. You would see the good and the bad, just like we see now.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 9 | |
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I believe that nature will bear you out on many of your points The law of the pack, the law of the jungle, "Lex Talionis"- the law of the tooth and claw; There will always be the factor of fear and intimidation of the strong to impose their will upon the weak. Certainly history confirms that merly believing in God has never been a deterrent against evil actions. The bible declairs that even Satan and the demons believe in God (Jas.2:19). I would agre that many wars have been fought in the name of religions and I would hasten to add that the same is true in the name of anti religion; Communism for example has claimed more lives in modern times than religion through the ages (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Papa Doc, etc. etc.). Love is the issue isn't it. My question is how can love be real in a universe that is nothing more than the chance results of matter, energy ,space and time? What is its source if it is not a personal loving creator? Does love inhere in mindless inert matter? Does it arise spontainiously from nothing? Either love and moral oughtness have been "programed" into man by a being who posses these qualities, or the terms good and bad are just self serving euphemisms for preference. It servs my self esteem to consider that I am good and right. But these are meaningless terms if there is no objective standard. God is the only unchainging standard , without Him we can justify anything we can get away with.
Human emotion gives what we know as love....our love however is not God's love. Our love is good and bad/positive and negative. God's is pure and only positive. Playing your game however, if we take God from the equation, we still have carbon based emotional love that gives us what we need to be happy here on earth. Emotions (all emotions) belong to the physical word. Perhaps they were created from imaginations of ancestors from long ago and the idea of them handed down and believed in long enough that the belief makes them real. Emotions exist as a reason to help us learn and grow. Even without God, people need a reason for existence. There will always be good and there will always be bad.
(off topic interjection)I do not believe in good and bad however. I believe that we are all equal simply because God loves us equally. We are all Souls walking our own journey. Some are young Souls, some are old Souls. Some are just beginning to learn and they make a lot of mistakes that others call "bad". But they will learn just like we all learn and a time will come when they peers judge them good rather than bad. Even Satan as you call him is not bad. He's just doing a job because God asked him to and he does it because he loves God and God love him.
(Back on topic) A universe without God could survive and flourish. It would be almost like what we have now in my opinion.
So, now I'm done with this sci-fi conversation. I see no further point in it other than you are trying to instruct the atheists on why they should believe in God. This is not your place. They are where they need to be in their existence. It is not your duty to try and bring them to your line of thinking or believing by trying to show them a bleak existence without God. Let them be and you continue to believe in God as will I and in this way, God's love is shared.
(off topic interjection)I do not believe in good and bad however. I believe that we are all equal simply because God loves us equally. We are all Souls walking our own journey. Some are young Souls, some are old Souls. Some are just beginning to learn and they make a lot of mistakes that others call "bad". But they will learn just like we all learn and a time will come when they peers judge them good rather than bad. Even Satan as you call him is not bad. He's just doing a job because God asked him to and he does it because he loves God and God love him.
(Back on topic) A universe without God could survive and flourish. It would be almost like what we have now in my opinion.
So, now I'm done with this sci-fi conversation. I see no further point in it other than you are trying to instruct the atheists on why they should believe in God. This is not your place. They are where they need to be in their existence. It is not your duty to try and bring them to your line of thinking or believing by trying to show them a bleak existence without God. Let them be and you continue to believe in God as will I and in this way, God's love is shared.
Chiangmai
Don, you sound like an educated GRANDPA2 who cannot spell.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 9 | |
What I meant is that although GRANDPA2 was not as educated, he was able to spell better than Don. Sorry about the confusion.
I didn't realize that you were referring to another individual. I thought the 2 was a typo. I certainly am not going to win any typing or spelling competitions, to tell the truth I am new to social media, and I'm used to spell check. (insert nasty adollecent ad hominem slurr here...)
Your misspelled words, Don: adollecent, asribed, spontainiously, declairs, unchainging, self expanitory, posses, miss read, with out, "a bacteria" (spelled correctly but used incorrectly....should be "bacterium"), unfortunatly, and untill.
"You see if I claim to be a duck but don't walk, talk and act like a duck, then don't judge duckhood by me." You sound like a duck, Don. One question left: how on God's green earth were you able to spell a difficult word like "euphemism" when you couldn't spell the simple ones?
"You see if I claim to be a duck but don't walk, talk and act like a duck, then don't judge duckhood by me." You sound like a duck, Don. One question left: how on God's green earth were you able to spell a difficult word like "euphemism" when you couldn't spell the simple ones?
This is the same question that my 1st yr. English Comp. Prof. asked me. He suggested that I make a list of the words I misspell often and carry it with me... the dictionary got to be heavy after a while :} I wonder if there is a way to spell chek in this forum?
After typing a word and you're going the the next word, you know it's a mistake when the word you've just typed has a red jagged line underneath it.
If you want us to take you seriously, you ought to take US more seriously by being extraordinarily careful when you spell.
If you want us to take you seriously, you ought to take US more seriously by being extraordinarily careful when you spell.
Spell checkers can be found all over the internet. Or on your tool bar, click Tools, then add ons, manage add ons, get new add ons, and scroll the list for spell checker.
I meant that for CD because he doesn't seem to know that the internet is a grand place for finding things he needs ;)
ed shank
There would be mass slaughter. No longer a fit place to live. Better off dead.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 9 | |
Oooh, oooh, ooooh!! I can think of a time when there was mass slaughter due to a God and...........well, I'm sure you know what I mean..... onward _____ soldiers.........
May I say that just because I may claim to be an officer of the law does not mean I have the credentials. I may claim to be acting as an agent of goodness on behalf of a good agency, but perhaps I am a liar or a fool and have no real affiliation with that which I claim. You see if I claim to be a duck but don't walk, talk and act like a duck, then don't judge duckhood by me. You will know them by their fruits. May I add, that there are in fact some things worth fighting and dying and yes even worth killing for. The "Just War" is a well established concept. The problem comes in deciding whose principles of justice we are to rely upon. Back to square one.
Do you even know who you are?
I see you're trying to get philosophical....keep practicing is all I can say ;)
Your words should actually lead somewhere, not just hang there in the air. You actually made no points at all.
I see you're trying to get philosophical....keep practicing is all I can say ;)
Your words should actually lead somewhere, not just hang there in the air. You actually made no points at all.
robertgrist
digger
I fail to see your inevitable connection between the need for ethics and the existence of god(s).
Are you implying that atheists have no morals or ethics?
| 12 years ago. Rating: 9 | |
You made an interesting point commenting @ chaplin....& I always thought phobias came from within. I my self suffer from coulrophobia.
No,its not a question of who has ethics or who doesn't. The question was and still remains; what is the justification for a system of morals and ethics if there is no source or standard for them. The point of my comment on atheism was not a negative judgement, it was a simple statement of fact. If one holds the position that there is no purpose or meaning to life (both of which require intentionality) then to be consistent one must deny any moral mandate or ethical obligation. The fact is, after 40 some years of engagement with folks on all sides of the debate, I have encountered very few who do not want to confirm some kind of moral and ethical standards. The only source avaiable other than make believe, is borrowed capital from those who have an objective standard. I'm afraid that the point has been lost in all the petty vitriol and acrimony.
@Chap. "If one (atheists) holds the position that there is no purpose or meaning to life (both of which require intentionality) then to be consistent one must deny any moral mandate or ethical obligation."
I would consider your comment offensive if it wasn't so fatuous.According to your dogmatic ideology,all atheists "see no purpose or meaning to life..." What a groundless piece of divisive, inane propaganda aimed at coalescing the religious troops.
One could easily argue that atheists value life MORE than believers since we know we won't get a second opportunity. But that argument would be offensive to the many believers who DO value life and its purpose which is why I have never presumed that of them. And that includes YOU.
I would consider your comment offensive if it wasn't so fatuous.According to your dogmatic ideology,all atheists "see no purpose or meaning to life..." What a groundless piece of divisive, inane propaganda aimed at coalescing the religious troops.
One could easily argue that atheists value life MORE than believers since we know we won't get a second opportunity. But that argument would be offensive to the many believers who DO value life and its purpose which is why I have never presumed that of them. And that includes YOU.
I understad your point on the value of life if this is all there is. It's a good one and frankly the first cogent remark that I have received from the opposing pont of view since I posted this question. Thank you.
Atheists have morals and ethics that a religious society has dumped on you. Without it, you would be doomed. You would eventually eat your neighbor. Where did "YOU" get your morality?
@Ed. Morals and ethics are for the most part, first absorbed by children during the very early formative years from responsible parenting and to some extent through schooling.
Beyond that, the crowd that one associates with,becomes an important source of influence either positively or negatively.
That's "how I got my morality". To date, I have yet to experience any cannibalistic urges. Now...if Charlize Theron ever became my neighbour, your prognostication may come to fruition. But THAT would be the work of the devil, not mine.
Beyond that, the crowd that one associates with,becomes an important source of influence either positively or negatively.
That's "how I got my morality". To date, I have yet to experience any cannibalistic urges. Now...if Charlize Theron ever became my neighbour, your prognostication may come to fruition. But THAT would be the work of the devil, not mine.
@digger, When I said "YOU" I should have rephrased that. I did not mean you specifically. I agree with your comment. My point was that we have a code of ethics which we have assumed as a civilized society. (one of which is NOT to eat your neighbor) I believe that faith has everything to do with morals, and yes our children learn from their Parents. IF, the parents have a code of decency so will their offspring. Should they be devoid of it so will their children.
Yonmon
If you think you need God to tell you the difference between right and wrong you are a very sad person.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 9 | |
I don't need anything other than that which is true. Actually I am very happy, giddy almost that I have eternal life.
Glad your giddy Don,I know where I am going, not to heaven,not to hell,just to the worms.As for eternal life, I think Ive suffered enough.
How do you know today what is right or wrong? Religion has dictated what is acceptable and what is not. Young children in Africa are kidnapped and trained to murder other humans without remorse. They know no other way of life. You, without contact with those who believe in a God, would not know that what you are doing is evil by a civilized societies standards.
Religion kills Ed, it's the way it has always been. Religion has nothing to do with God and everything to do with agendas and dogmas. Never trust religion. God backs none of them. Religion itself is the evil as it follows lower gods but there is a reason for them. To keep their followers confused. It's one great big test to find out who truly desires to find God on their own and not follow a path set down for them by men.
Chaplin Don
Christiphobia- C- h- r- i- s- t- o- p- h- o- b- i- a: the fear and loathing of Christ and Christianity by some who oppose the same.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 8 | |
I have no fear of Christ. Christ is a wonderful Soul who was filled with God's love when he walked the earth, still is filled with it now. He was a beautiful being who loved and loved all as he loves God. I do however fear some of his followers for how they've warped the message he brought the world and have become religious sick because of it. They believe they are the chosen ones and some I believe feel they are the anointed ones, the ones who are suppose to save the "lost" and herd them back to their church and beliefs. No Soul is ever lost. God knows exactly where every Soul is. No Soul needs to be saved, all Souls are saved through God's love alone.
Religion confuses everything. People who believe they know what God or Jesus wants confuse everything. Beware the false prophets offering something for free. Nothing is free.
Religion confuses everything. People who believe they know what God or Jesus wants confuse everything. Beware the false prophets offering something for free. Nothing is free.
CD, ...like all phobias, I suppose, but why do you label an opposing view to yours as being phobic? Lack of a credible apology(defense)?
I asked you a question (scroll upwards) which you haven't yet addressed. Are you Atheistaphobic ?
I asked you a question (scroll upwards) which you haven't yet addressed. Are you Atheistaphobic ?
I do not lable those with opposing views as phobic. But I think the term is self expanitory. I welcome rational opposing opinions. But just as the term homophobic is descriptive of an irrational, indefensible and intolerant reaction to homosexuality, as opposaed to a reasoned and thoughtful difference of opinion, so it is with my term.
There's nothing wrong with homosexuals. There is something wrong with a person who can not handle other people not seeing things his way. You made some out of bounds accusations about me. I still have not met those accusations to this point. Are you still holding yourself above me? Step down off your soap box.
Colleen, read what CD said about homophobic before you shove him off the soap box and take his place.
Bob, pick a soap box to stand on. You are way too two faced in what you post to this forum to have your beliefs of me hold any merit in my life. I believe you have two names for a reason and not the one you've tried to promote here.
Colleen, you are just all over my case everywhere I go. You don't like me. I'm fine with that. Other people don't like me. I'm fine with that. You want to harass and belittle me, I'm fine with that. You want to criticize my answers and my questions, I'm fine with that. Calling me names makes you feel better, go right ahead. If that all makes you have a good day, then it's a good thing I'm here for you!
Actually, no I'm not all over you all the time Bob or Phyllis. I asked you a simple question and again you went into a rant. I responded to your rant and you calling me a dog or should I allow you the back peddle and say you likened me to a dog. I say it as I see it and others here see it too. You are two faced. Not as many are fooled as you believe they are. Some just placate you and your need for attention.
Actually, Colleen, those were observations, far from a rant. It's all fine with me. I have answered your questions to the best of my ability, which has fallen short in your opinion and that is OK, too.
You have called me two-faced and addressed me as "Phyllis". Pythonlover reacently wrote an answer to stellablue that one of the behaviors that gets a member suspended is name-calling. I likened your tenacity to a fearless canine I did not stoop to name-calling, nor did I attack your integrity. But it's OK, Colleen. Now, I have some beans to sugar-coat. TTYL
You have called me two-faced and addressed me as "Phyllis". Pythonlover reacently wrote an answer to stellablue that one of the behaviors that gets a member suspended is name-calling. I likened your tenacity to a fearless canine I did not stoop to name-calling, nor did I attack your integrity. But it's OK, Colleen. Now, I have some beans to sugar-coat. TTYL
"I likened your tenacity to a fearless canine"
Does fake work for you in the real world?
Anyone can read what you said and trust me on this, others who have read it feel the same as I do. You were NOT being complimentary. I imagine you were born with peddles for all the back peddling you do with your words.
Two faced is an observation of your "style" on this forum. It's not name calling. Rip apart one day, kiss butt the next. It has not just been with Randy either. It's been seen many times but more than just me, just in case you want to call me delusional again.
Does fake work for you in the real world?
Anyone can read what you said and trust me on this, others who have read it feel the same as I do. You were NOT being complimentary. I imagine you were born with peddles for all the back peddling you do with your words.
Two faced is an observation of your "style" on this forum. It's not name calling. Rip apart one day, kiss butt the next. It has not just been with Randy either. It's been seen many times but more than just me, just in case you want to call me delusional again.
FISH-O
Peace.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 6 | |
Freeing isn't it? To finally be able to say proudly that you are a Buddhist and not have to worry about some Christians attacking you for it and judging and deeming you as hell bound. Personally I'm tired of the kool aid Christians. They can have the site. It's not been the same since Randy's little boy temper tantrum. I've never known such babies as the Christians are. Whine, complain, stomp their feet and throw their dang book around. I'm betting not one of them here has ever read it from cover to cover and understood it. They just make up stuff for the parts they do not understand. I'm bored with their drivel and their self belief that only they will go to heaven. I hope it's true because an eternity with that mob would be worse than hell.
mycatsmom
If we didn't have a moral system, and ethics, it would be chaos. This question has got to win the record for having the most answers, and the longest answers.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 6 | |
Not even close. This question actually fell flat on it's objective. You don't read many threads here do you, to think this one is even a smidgen close to a record.
I have no idea. You find it. I'm actually tired of finding things that you claim disappeared that never disappeared, you just don't know how to find them again. I can't hold your hand forever. Figure it out. I do not need to read 90 minutes in heaven. I've been there. I have my own experiences to go by.
To Chaplin Don, you seem a bit intense, this is not to say that I disagree with your points. You have gotten a taste of what it takes to get "mugged" here. I suggest you turn off your machine when in "battle" and check your blood pressure. Certain subjects can not be rationally discussed here without being labeled something. I have found the cure. Click. Next question.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 6 | |
Where did he get mugged? Seems he made some low blows on atheists and was the first to bring up labeling. Good idea to click next page if you only see what you want to see.
Like little dogs that growl and chew on people's pants legs, never letting go. Shake shake shake. Nope, still there. Like one of those argumentative children Am not, Are too. Am not. Are too. OK, fine, have it your (irrational)way.
It takes two to fight and the smarter one shuts up. I see it, too, ed shank.
It takes two to fight and the smarter one shuts up. I see it, too, ed shank.
Who the heck is fighting? You're right Bob. The smart one knows when to shut up but you forgot to add that the foolish one speaks from their own agenda that has nothing to do with the conversation. Others see it too Bob or PKB or Bob whichever one you were on this day. Hard to tell when a person splits their personality as much as you do. First you rip a person like say....Randy apart, then you kiss his butt the next day, then you tear him down again, then you say how you feel sorry for him the next day. Pick a soap box Bob/PKB. Pick a personality. Then you can speak of being rational.... or not.
Colleen, thanks for caring so much about what I say to Randy. Yes, when I don't agree with him, he hears from me honestly. When I agree with him, or am sympathetic to harassment he endures, he'll hear from me honestly.
As to my "agenda" here, it is to ask and answer questions sincerely and honestly, with integrity and intelligence. I'm sure there are many who think I have done so, as I'm sure there are many who think I have failed miserably. That's fine with me.
Pick a soapbox? No, thanks. There are plenty of people with serious issues and passion for them here.
Pick a personality? I'll take the one I have, sugar-coated, two-faced, and cold beans. Yippy
As to my "agenda" here, it is to ask and answer questions sincerely and honestly, with integrity and intelligence. I'm sure there are many who think I have done so, as I'm sure there are many who think I have failed miserably. That's fine with me.
Pick a soapbox? No, thanks. There are plenty of people with serious issues and passion for them here.
Pick a personality? I'll take the one I have, sugar-coated, two-faced, and cold beans. Yippy
Oh no, your agenda is well known. You think you've fooled a lot of people here but some actually have you fooled :) Be careful who you e-mail in your posse ;)
Bob/PKB
Without some sort of moral code and ethical behavior, I think you would be looking at something similar to Sodom and Gommorah (sorry I'm sure that is spelled wrong). Child pornography would be acceptable, incest would be commonplace, people would just take whatever they wanted without working for it or paying for it. The murder rate would skyrocket; I honestly believe "marriage" would become nonexistent as people would just be taking whoever they wanted. Children would be even more obnoxious at school than they are now., if education even existed. People would have no respect for themselves or each other. I see mayhem and chaos. Think "Back To The Future 2" or "Idiocracy".
Would there be any justification? Yes.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 5 | |
Wow, you have that little faith in people. Would you be like this if there were no morals or ethics to guide you? Do you really believe that without the idea of God, everyone would just be animals?
I have much more faith in humankind that this. Love of family and friends would instill morals and ethics without anyone having to teach others about them.
I have much more faith in humankind that this. Love of family and friends would instill morals and ethics without anyone having to teach others about them.
Bob, what you say is correct. What you DON'T say, however, is that a mandatory code and ethical behaviour can ONLY exist through a fundamental belief in God. I agree with you. It doesn't.
Colleen, yes, I have that little faith in people. Faith in people is faith misplaced, as far as I am concerned. In some ways, I'm sure I'd be far less moral than I already am; I felt wrong doing things that were morally wrong in my life; without morals, I would still be doing those same things and thinking it was OK to do and take whatever.
As far as love, I believe that with no God, there is no love. I kool aid the "no God - no love; Know God - know love" bumper sticker.
And don't suggest we would just be animals. Most animals are far more civilized than too many humans.
As far as love, I believe that with no God, there is no love. I kool aid the "no God - no love; Know God - know love" bumper sticker.
And don't suggest we would just be animals. Most animals are far more civilized than too many humans.
Take every known religion out of the equation today. There is no more God, Allah, etc; We would become victims or predator, no different then the warlords in Africa who butcher there own. The next generation would be even less humane. Humanity would implode. The fear of eternal retribution from an invisible entity, or belief in the rock in your back yard is what keeps us in check. Most humans have a religious belief. Just look at how kind we are to one another with religious based moral convictions. To think humans are capable of policing themselves from what we know as the commandments is absurd.
So what you're saying Bob is that Atheists do not have the ability to love because they do not believe in God and only God can promote love? I never suggested that we would be just like animals. I have more faith in mankind than that. Sorry to see people would just give up, first on themselves, then on others.
As a Christian, I believe God is Love. Take God (love) out of the picture, and nobody can experience love.
I don't know what or how an atheist feels, but since I believe God IS, I also believe His love extends to everyone, believer or not.
Colleen, you ARE the one who brought up the concept of humans behaving as animals. I made no reference to animals or "regressing" to animal behavior. Animals are, in many ways, more "civilized" than humans.
You have "more faith in mankind" than I because it appears my concept of God is a bit different than yours, as far as I have been able to discern from our answers here.
And just FYI: I don't blame God for religious wars any more than I blame guns for shooting people. People shoot people and people start wars. WHAT they fight about isn't exclusive to religious differences.
I don't know what or how an atheist feels, but since I believe God IS, I also believe His love extends to everyone, believer or not.
Colleen, you ARE the one who brought up the concept of humans behaving as animals. I made no reference to animals or "regressing" to animal behavior. Animals are, in many ways, more "civilized" than humans.
You have "more faith in mankind" than I because it appears my concept of God is a bit different than yours, as far as I have been able to discern from our answers here.
And just FYI: I don't blame God for religious wars any more than I blame guns for shooting people. People shoot people and people start wars. WHAT they fight about isn't exclusive to religious differences.
Are you supposed to breach confidentiality by addressing a member by a name other than the one they have chosen to use on this website?
I'm very clear on what I believe and I wrote it clearly. My answer addressed to what I thought a world with no moral code or ethical behavior would regress.
It's just an opinion. Why are you so angry with me?
I'm very clear on what I believe and I wrote it clearly. My answer addressed to what I thought a world with no moral code or ethical behavior would regress.
It's just an opinion. Why are you so angry with me?
You've mentioned the name yourself here, how do you think I know it? Don't even try to play the breaching confidentiality card with me. You NEVER told me your name in confidence. You told the forum. I'm not angry with you. I'm just not fooled by you and what you have represented to me from the start. You began your time here wanting to know how one becomes a moderator then proceeded to put in complaints about me to the admin. You thought I would want to play friends with you? No, I am more real than that. You have a hard time with real.
Your views still play to anyone who does not believe in your god or any God for that matter I suppose.
Your views still play to anyone who does not believe in your god or any God for that matter I suppose.
I do not want to be a moderator. I never did and I never will want to be a moderator.
I contact admin when I feel a question, answer, or comment is abusive; when whoever they are feel the report is merited, something is done.
"They" say you mean no harm to me and are just taking your job as moderator seriously.
I contact admin when I feel a question, answer, or comment is abusive; when whoever they are feel the report is merited, something is done.
"They" say you mean no harm to me and are just taking your job as moderator seriously.
None of this has anything to do with me as a moderator. I asked you a question. You likened me to a dog. Moderating had nothing to do with any of this. Had I been playing moderator here on this thread, I would have just removed the dog bit. I do not need to use moderator to handle your issues with me, nor do I tattle to the admin when you me call things like dog and child. :)
Didn't call you anything but COlleen. "Like",as "in the manner of".
Not quite the same as "You are two faced".
Now, I'm going to stop acting "like one of those argumentative children" and stop playing am not, are to with you.
Not quite the same as "You are two faced".
Now, I'm going to stop acting "like one of those argumentative children" and stop playing am not, are to with you.
Ann
I am a Christian and believe in the ten commandments I have lived with faith in God all my life. It has helped me through many trials in my life.morally and ethical. It is my own personal choice. I dont judge people who have a different belief as I dont want them to judge me for mine. My believe in God has made me concious morally and ethicially how unjust the world really is, mostly for people who have no voice.Without morality and ethics we would cease to exist.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 5 | |
Ann, you epitomize tolerance and respect towards others. I too don't attempt to convert anyone. Certainly not those with religious beliefs that are harnessed towards doing good.
It's those that don an air of judgmental spiritual superiority that I have a real problem with.
You represent all that is good about believing.
It's those that don an air of judgmental spiritual superiority that I have a real problem with.
You represent all that is good about believing.
Thank you very much digger,this is truly a pleasant surprise to get a compliment from you.I believe as I stated above that everyones choice what they believe in schould be respected.
valR
bigben
Nope, there is no justification for morality or ethics at all. Unless of course, you want to live in society with the rest of us. People establish moral and ethical codes, not a non-existent god, and we form them to provide order in what would otherwise be chaos. Of course, you don't have to abide by our code as long as you don't mind a mandatory reservation at Club Fed.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 5 | |
REDEYEDWOLF
rick screen
Since we dont live in such a universe, Your question is mute.
It by the way was ask on a porch at Ephases 2.483 years ago.
| 12 years ago. Rating: 2 | |
If you are a true Atheist,There is nothing wrong with you. I have debated a room full of them, And i have found them to be the most unsecure Christians i have ever encountered. This was in Europe back in 1967. Students of those who advocated Atheism turned on their hero's, I was kept until well. after dawn the next day expounding on my live experiences and belief's . My conversion rate was minus those who were chased from the room.
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