13 Answers

Your never going to get away from homophobes. Never. Accept the fact that an overwhelming segment of this society simply does not accept the gay marriage issue. Their religious beliefs tell them it is unacceptable. I should, being a Christian also believe that it is against Gods will. I can't on this issue. I see no harm in it. No threat to society, humanity, dignity. I will admit that I would prefer my little ones be straight and not be subjected the stigma placed on the gay community. Should they be gay or choose a nonconventional relationship with someone the same gender, I would love them no less. 

Colleen

I understand religious beliefs. My thing is, keep them put of politics! I do not want my life conditionally decided by someones religion. Now I find it extremely amusing watching them squirm under the thumb of the very government they use to keep my rights from me! Hahahahahaha!!!

Poorly written letter. I wouldn't even bother to follow the link.

Colleen

The link was not the point. It's the letter that is the point. The cry baby "poor us" is the point. KARMA is the point. Fight to keep rights from people and soon you get to watch your rights come under attack! That is the point!!

When did contraceptives and birth control become a health issue that should be free?

Self control is free use it.

I'm sure GAYS as well as STRAIGHT people can use self control equally.

Colleen

Condoms make for safe sex. Some women should not be getting pregnant if they are sick or have a defect and the pregnancy might kill them. Think outside the box Randy. These women, even if they are Catholic have the right to try and save their own lives by taking birth control at the same time as "pleasing their husbands" as their religion dictates. Abstention is a form of birth control too so they can't even use that to tell their husbands no. Yet another lack of thinking and understanding because women are still the lesser beings in religious dogmas and this apparently still man orientate world.

Colleen

Yet the Catholic church still follows the propagate rule which means if married and in order to be good sheeple, married couples have to propagate with the message that God will take care of their needs as far as affording the children. Ask the church however to cough up the money for support and they suddenly go deaf to the people's plight or tell them to seek government assistance.

Colleen

"What ever happened to separation of church and state?
It is freedom of religion, the state should stay out of the church but the church is not to be keep out of the government."

Wrong! This is the mind set of the religious right still looking for the power to control all! This is the Christian Crusades still trying to rear it's ugly head and force all to live by their rules. Get it right, it's freedom to practice your own religion in the United States of America, this however does not include the right of religion to force it's dogma on the people via the US government and laws and legislation created by the government. Keep the religious crap out of Governmental affairs or tax the heck out of them! Keep allowing religion into governmental affairs, then tax the Churches as a business. Their religion belongs behind their church doors and that's it. I do expect that only open minded people will understand this.

Colleen

So under that amendment any religion that kills animals or even people as a sacrifice to their god should be free of government control. They should be free to practice their religion as they wish. Government has no say in their business according to you and that amendment. Since I believe you would agree that no animals or people should be sacrificed do to religious beliefs, there are occasions when that amendment can not protect all the desired rights of a religion. Christianity wants to cross the line and involve it's self in political matters by funding bills that withhold the rights of others. This can not be allowed as there is a separation of church and state (meaning government). Individual state DO have a right to govern churches within their jurisdiction by the way. State is separate of Government which is why we have Supreme courts. States have the right to fight governmental control.


"Where does it say government can't be affected by religion?"

This matter was settled by the US Supreme Court based on a letter written by one of the founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson (one of the key framers of the US Constitution).

"There is often debate about what exactly the First Amendment means, however, in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Thomas Jefferson made clear that the purpose of the First Amendment was to establish a "wall of separation" between Church and State in order to protect individuals' right of conscience: and because of that, this is the law set down by the US Supreme court. Religion stays out of government affairs and government stays out of religious affair. You should pay more attention to your countries politics.

As for this country being founded on Christian beliefs, let me refer you to this thread where PROOF was presented by ROMOS (who lives in Scotland but learned this even in his schools as it was taught in my schools, not sure how your schools missed this))that the US was NOT founded on Christian beliefs. http://www.akaqa.com/question/q19191874008-This-is-why-religion-and-politics-do-not-mix#a1919851011

The USA was founded on the beliefs of free thinkers, Masons and Deists. Very few of our founding fathers were religious or even believed in religion or the bible. Most were men of the Enlightenment. The Declaration of Independence (which was the beginning of the founding of this nation and it's values) was written during the height of the Enlightenment when Deism was popular and widely known. Deistic language was easy to recognize by people of the time because Deists avoided all of the traditional references to the Christian God. When Deists referred to "God" they used terms like "Supreme Being", "Almighty Judge", "Creator", "God of Nature", "Nature's God", etc. On the other hand Christians typically used terms like "the Lord", "Jesus Christ", "God", "Savior", etc. We do not see any of those references in the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence. Any governing of the government or it's people or the way the people of the United States live, including social values are NOT set down by biblical beliefs. Jesus has no more a spot in our government than any other God.

If you want to make the claim that this country was founded by Christian settlers, then I can bring you proof that it was not.

Colleen

Not really off topic. Obamas plan is to make sure birth control is covered for the married Catholic women who must submit to their husbands desires but can not risk getting pregnant. Birth control pills require a visit to the doctor and then there's the price of the pills monthly. This can be costly. IUD's are expensive also. Think beyond the box Randy.

Colleen

The church paid for and helped write prop 8 which negated legal gay marriages in California. Don't tell me we do not have to do what they say. Those snakes in the grass hid behind fake groups who lobby to have a right denied to a select group of people. The Churches illegally funded these anti gay groups. The Church of Later Day Saints and two Christian Churches (I forget which denominations they were) got fined by the US government for illegally funding and helping to orchestrate that hate bill which became an amendment of California's State Constitution. Religion is too involved in Government business. Now government is returning the visit and involving itself in church business. It's lesson time for the bigoted power hungry religions. They should stay on their own side of the fence and government might leave them alone.

By the way, I looked at your posting of the 1st amendment again and realized you may not understood the wording pf it and what it actually means.

The first part of the amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

This is actually a prohibition on the "establishment of religion" by government. In other words, the US government can not implement one secular religion as the religion of the country. The founding fathers could not, constitutionally say the country was founded on Christianity because that would mean Christianity was the religion of the country. It is not, not now, not then. It does not read, "Congress shall make no law [against] an established religion". If it read that way, then yes it would say the government could NOT make laws for the Church to follow.

The second part reads:

"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

The US Government can not mandate what religion the people must follow or how the religion instructs it's people in matters of God or spirituality. Religion is freedom of choice as dictated by this amendment.

None of this says any Church can stick it's nose in government affairs and none of this says the government can not set down laws for the church to follow when it comes to taking care of it's paid employees.

I'm spoiled, I don't want to give up a damn thing BUT, I am willing to fight for what's fair.......

The Bill of Rights, summarized:

Freedom of Speech, Press, Religion and Petition
Right to keep and bear arms
Conditions for quarters of soldiers
Right of search and seizure regulated
Provisons concerning prosecution
Right to a speedy trial, witnesses, etc.
Right to a trial by jury
Excessive bail, cruel punishment
Rule of construction of Constitution
Rights of the States under Constitution

I notice that freedom of religion is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, right up there in the #1 spot..  
Freedom of religion allows JW to knock on people's doors.  It allows whichever faith and/or denomination to practice their faith without threat of persecution.  There's a problem with some faiths not allowing blood transfusions, operations, and other medical treatment that could possibly save a life.  Those conflicts are decided in a court of law.
Everyone has the right to freedom of speech and freedom to petition, too.  Eventually, and apparently the day has come, speech, petition, and religion are jostling each other.  
 

Colleen

You're still missing the point. If they want to fund political bills that keep rights from tax paying American citizens, then they will have allow government to step into their business. They should also give up their tax free status since they fight to keep the right to pursuit of happiness from tax paying citizens. My taxes are suppose to protect me from religious attacks and persecutions. If the Christians, the Mormons, the JW's, the Baptists or any other religion do not want homosexuals getting married, then they do not have to marry them. And they can tell their sheep to not be gay but that should and needs to stay inside the church walls, not out in society where not everyone follows their close minded prejudices. The church is too infused into government. They want to believe they have the power to throw up their close mindedness over everyone. I say label them the money making businesses they are and tax them to death like every other business gets taxed in the USA and they will no longer have the millions and billions to keep sticking their stuck up religious dogmas into GOVERNMENT BUSINESS!! Separation is for both parties. Someone needs to give the church the news flash that it does not apply only to the government.

BTW, the e-mail came came Newsmax, not some random unknown site.

Get ready Americans, you are all losing your freedoms one by one. Have you noticed?

Colleen

Yes I have. The ones still sleeping and supporting Obama have not.

Colleen

No, they are not trying to take freedom of religion, they are just trying to make the job places equal. What is being asked is that anyone who works for the church and receives a pay check should have their health care covered the same as any other worker in the USA. The Catholic religion is still free to practice and dupe people and take their money.

I like my picture too, thanks :)

Colleen- I am with you on this.  I strongly believe in the separation of church and state.  I truly believe those we elect, no matter their religious convictions, should take an oath that they will legislate fairly amongst their constituents regardless of their religious convictions.  I live in a Liberal State that allows significant others the right to be insured by their partner, have power of attny., share bank accounts, own property, etc with/ for their partner but they still quibble about gay/ lesbian marriage.  I don't get it.  Washington DC allows gay/ lesbian marriage- but you have to live their to have it fully recognized (as nowhere else recognizes it).  The major problem with that is DC has no federal representation (no Senators or House Reps).

I really don't think this has a thing to do with anyone's rights, gay/lesbian/religious/black/white/etc, this is simply a ploy to get votes--  In the past it was abortion, this is not working as well as it did in the past as a political issue, there needs to be a new argument.  Obama played this well!  A couple weeks ago, George Stephanopoulos (admitted liberal) interviews Romny, he brings up contraception. (would you outlaw contraception) . Romney was taken by this question as there is no state that has this on their books, now or ever--  Why bring something up like this.. Of course, Romney states that he has nothing against this but why bring it up??

The following week Obama makes a statement saying that mandatory contraception be made available in Catholic hospitals, since then he rescinded this--  Now this makes Obama look good and he's planted the seed that republicans are against contraception because they came out and spoke up for the rights of Catholics..  This was a well planned card issued by the Obama company, Stephanopoulos was a pawn of the whitehouse, it was his job to get this ball rolling.. Now you will hear about this all the way to election time. (even though its really a dead issue) As far as catholics being pissed off?? Not really, they been using contraception since its arrival, 

The rights of others is how you see it-- You can't take away the rights of one and give it to another.. No more than you can take from the rich and give to the poor and expect equality amongst all.. If a person is different than the majority, this person must learn to live with this indifference and quit gnawing at the majority.  There was a time when 'Majority rules'  We are now in a reversal time where 'Minority Rules'-- This is not the democracy I was taught..

Back to the issue, this is one of many leftist ploys to secure the whitehouse- I am sure that there will be ploys from the right but as so far, the rupubs are fighting amongst themselves, it will come..

Colleen

Who's votes will he get from this? He sliced his political wrist by going after the Church. This makes no sense when one needs votes. It's about power and control. The government got the OK from the people to infringe on the rights afforded under the 14th amendment and Obama is running with it and ignoring the Bill of Rights too.

He has not rescinded all of the measure. The Church is still ticked off and asking for money to fight this bill.

I am a tax paying citizen, my rights are being denied based on religious views. My taxes are suppose to protect me from that. I don't give a hoot what the majority says. They were wrong on the black issue too. I hope more and more rights get stripped from the people and religions. I'll give up even more of mine to make make sure every citizen in the US knows what it's like to be treated unfairly, unequally and to not have the rights they believe they deserve.

Colleen

We have the 14th amendment, that is what strips the "rights" from those who wish to discriminate against the minority. Without the 14th amendment, blacks would still be slaves. I'm going on 50 years old, I'm running out of time to see my rights recognized. 2012 is here and this close mindedness about homosexuals being humans and deserving of equal rights has not changed. NH is next in line for removing gay marriage, the religious are winning that war to get legalized gay marriage overturned and thrown out. Vermont is facing the same fight, legal homosexual unions are being threatened there by groups funded by the churches. When will people grow up and stop using their religious taught beliefs against others? Ask anyone why they do not agree with gay marriage and I can guarantee 90+ percent will say, "In the bible it says...." SHEEP!

I hope the government steps on even more religious rights. I love listening to them scream now that their prejudices are being visited apon them.

Colleen

"Colleen, you really need to move to CA"
Thanks but no thanks. Cali is just not my kind of state, lol. Besides, soon I will have NH and VT to speak against and file petitions against if the christian folk manage to over turn legal gay unions and marriages in those states. I will help push the matter to the supreme courts of both states. Hate is already losing in California as the The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit just passed down the ruling that prop 8 is unconstitutional. So now we are probably off to the US Supreme court if they will hear the case as it is suspected the proponents of prop 8 will seek to have the The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit's ruling over turned. If the US Supreme Court chooses not to hear the case, then the ruling stands and California will have to remove the discriminatory amendment from it's Constitution and reinstate gay marriage. Now I wait on NH and Vermont. This on the heals of D.C. legalizing gay marriage. The churches are going to go broke (and I hope they do) trying to fight all these laws legalizing gay marriages. Instead of spending money to help people, they are wasting millions trying to keep bigotry and prejudice alive. I can not believe their own followers can not see just how sad this fact is. The blind following the blind.

I believe under one of the Ammendments there is also a provision regarding Equal treatment under law. It might be under the 14th. Ammendment. But, there is a wording somewhere in the Constitution, where everyone is supposed to be afforded equal treatment under law, regardles of: race, origin, religion, gender, and ethnicity.

Sadly, at times they seem to interpret those words to where they almost have no meaning. It's truly sad that any branch of our government chooses to discriminate against any group, and then mask it behind a convoluted interpretation of some obviously intended words.

None!

Colleen

Then you better start fighting them on withholding rights from others or yours will be next. That's a guarantee.

Colleen

TU for you then :)

NONE and I will not that is what Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson are for.

Colleen

So the gays in California should have started shooting people when their right to be married was taken away from them by proposition 8? One minute, it was legal for them to be married, the next minute it was gone. Should they have turned to Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson because of that? I know you support equal rights for gays. I'm just wondering if your thought extends to others and if you really think shooting people is the way to go?

Colleen

Darn and I have my six shooter in hand too.

The course of our government is to define freedom. Our way began with basic laws that were agreed to so that we could have an orderly society. The crude laws of our heirtage require reconsideration so that all citizens are fairly represented without the need or imposition of unfair or unequal rights on anyone. As a result many old laws that forbid or allowed unfair treatment of persons have been legally recognized as flawed and are then rewritten in congress to amend such oversights.  The courts interpret the laws written by congress and in that congress sees their success and failings that may call for furthur remedial action. It is up to us to demand congress corrects their legislative errors. Any law that denies fair and equal treatment must be corrected more fairly for all. Wealth and education are rancid bedfellows demanding our attention…where is equality in this?  

Homophobia should be treated as a mental illness like any other social/cultural anomaly. 

Colleen

Maybe they can make a pill to cure them of the disease.

Colleen

(((hug)))