close
    OK, educated atheist, make your case....

    Show us how it all started without creation.

    +9  Views: 2705 Answers: 28 Posted: 7 years ago
    Darci13

    Sounds too evasive to be an answer.........

    Headless Man

    I give a TU to everyone who put in a remark that is debatable (some were canceled) keep up the debating. Love, Randy

    jayaywhy

    no it just took me a while to type my answer.

    jayaywhy

    The truth is so vast, its hard to figure out where to start.

    papa peg

    Randy i think you scared them with that question.Or their still sleeping

    28 Answers

    I have bad eyes and can’t type well so I will try to keep this to the point.
    All you have said is interesting, however you have not explained how everything got started without a creator, guess you can say it always was, like we say GOD always was.
    And we can’t understand how something could always be.
    However I know because of my personal relationship with him. He talks to me in many ways through prayer, dreams, visions, and holy spirit. He has answered many prayers until you have been on your death bed you might not understand, I have been seriously ill 10 times in my life and every time GOD has been with me and I’ve learned things that I can share. Maybe I can share one:
    A crtptococcus Fungus was growing in my lungs.
    I was soon unable to breath well and ran a fever, they tried different things but I became sicker. One night, I will never forget, my fever became 106 and I had problem getting my breath. They put me on a oxygen mask that cut into my nose and a bed of ice to get my fever down I sweat and shivered all through the night and still had a high fever in the morning. I set up and they took my temperature 105. They gave me a Tylenol. My wife came to see me and prayed with me I felt better almost right away could breath better and fever broke. Wife ask them to check my temp. again, they replied the Tylenol hadn't had time to work but they did anyway. It was normal. We found out later that our pastors mother was being anointed for me at church (it was sunday) at about the same time with the same scripture being quoted that my wife had quoted. I know what you think, fever just broke on it’s own and the prayer a coincidence, you can believe that free country, but I know better.
    This story was just one of many that I could type fast.....lol

    Ms Sinclair

    How do you explain then a bolt of lightening or some other natural disaster striking a church and killing everyone inside while they are praying? That's actually happened on numerous occasions. Maybe you became better because your mind willed it to be so because of your belief. It does not necessarily mean that God healed you. The mind is a very powerful untapped instrument. Most people only use a small portion of their brain.

    Ms Sinclair

    Oh it's happened alright. I've seen stories like that on the news on several occasions. And I doubt that everyone in the church wanted to go to heaven at that particular moment. It's far more likely that a least some of them were praying to be spared for a while, at least. And if you were praying to let God take you why would God not listen to you but listen to the person in the church who wanted to go to heaven? And why not listen to those who wanted to live?

    Ms Sinclair

    I don't have a link to give you but I am telling the truth. Don't recall the specific incidents but I do remember hearing about them.

    PEOPLELOVER

    Ms Sinclair is correct. The recent Christchurch (now there`s a misnomer) in New Zealand resulted in the destruction of a historic cathedarel resulting in death. So much for a God thanking his followers for wasting money on building "HIS" house. The money wasted on religion would end world suffering a thousand times over, come to think of it do away with religion and there would not be any world suffering as most is the result of fanatics to religion> I include all religions with no exceptions.

    Headless Man

    Don't think that has happened that many times, but if you say so, can't prove you wrong, but if everyone was killed who was the witness. Maybe someone was praying GOD come now and he did for them if they were Christians they went to heaven quickly.
    I was very sick (I was praying to just take me LORD) my wife's faith and my churches faith is what persuaded god to heal me and use me for his glory. The nurses and doctors knew GOD was in it. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    How old are you, I'm 63 and I've never heard a story where a church full of christians praying was struck by lighting and everyone killed. Sorry I don't believe the story, I thought you were trying to make a point, so I made a point. If I'm wrong give me a link (I looked).
    As to your question about GOD answering one and not the other, I'm not GOD. HE sure hasn't answered all of mine but sometimes it takes years and HE knows witch to answer yes and no.

    Headless Man

    Everything I have gone through has made me a better person. Pain makes you stronger and sickness makes you wise if you let it. I have been closer to GOD on my worse days. The disease was diabetics that lead to other things, but that keep me out of bars and put me on the road to a better life. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    There has been countries that have outlawed religion, how did they do? Love, Randy

    username

    why are you supporting a god who gave you bad eyes and gave you the disease in the first place..i would tell him to stop and maybe get a better god to create a world of no sickness and cruality

    bestway

    Randy that is a horrendous experience.
    I too have bad sight and have had many major surgeries
    I am also a lot older that you are.
    Randy suffers like the rest of us from Adamic sin. It is a fatal disease that we all suffer from. It means that our genes and DNA structure are imperfect. As a result our imune system lets us down and eventualy we grow old and we die.
    So if it was not for the Almighty God and his Son none of us would be alive in the first place. If he had judicially executed Adam and his wife as he had every right to, before they had offspring, none of us would be here in the first place.

    If he had not instuted a plan to save the human race from its ongoing misery the life would be without any lasting purpose, and eventually we would contaminate earth so much that every thing on it would die as well. Happily with the total cooperation of his only begotten Son he instuted a plan to ransome the human race from its folly and imperfection, but that plan depends on our cooperation and faith based on ACCURATE knowledge of what his plan is in this 21st century. Age, experience, or qualifications has nothing to do with it. Faith based on accurate knowledge of where we are in the stream of Gods time table for ending human misery has everything to do with it. It a sort while the human race will enter something called the great tribulation. Only those who have total faith and committment will survive.
    I kid you not.

    "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."

    Headless Man

    You just made an uneducated remark. The BIBLE teaches the ways of the world (A lot of scientific knowledge in there) your atatude is talked about in the BIBLE. Love, Randy

    bestway

    Are you talking about true religion or false religion cucumber?
    There is actually complete harmony with true science and accurate understanding of of the Bible.


    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
    Full stop, new paragraph --- no time period mentioned --- no conflicting with modern scientific thinking.


    Sadly Irish Archbishop James Usher the man James I King of England and Scotland favored when he commissioned the KJ translation of scriptures made a mistake. He held the preconceived notion common at the time that the earth was created in six 24 hr days. See below.

    As we know there are a few theories about how it all began but only a couple officially recognized like the creation story, which is pretty easy to believe if your ten years old. People have to educate themselves and stop taking the bible's stories as literal. The earth was NOT created in 6 days, it take billions of years for a planet to be created and science has witnessed the birth of stars which is the very beginning of how a planet is formed. From that star particles and gases are spewed from it for billions of years allowing time and pressure to work it's magic that's how a planet is formed, That's science, not some bull malarkey story about a 6 day planet. When scientist announced the birth of the star I didn't hear any reports that anyone saw "God" weaving together that star. Noah did NOT build an arc and put 2 of every animal on the planet on it. Just use your common sense and you'll see the logistics of this is impossible. Build a ship large enough to house 2 of everyone, feed them and then drop everyone off in their indigenous habitat when its all over. Common, get real. The story of Adam and Eve and so on, its all crap. Here is the truth...


    Did you know that the Christian story is one of the oldest on the planet. Contrary to popular belief, if one does his/her research you would learn that the three kings following the star in the east, the virgin birth on December 25 and all of the other attributes that make up the Jesus story are all pulled out of an ancient Egyptian pagan religion that dates back over 3000 years b.c. The Egyptians used to worship their sun god Horus, who was born on December 25 by the Virgin Davaki and so on. This story has all of the same attributes as the Jesus story only written 3000 years earlier, and it’s not the only one. At the same time developing societies everywhere were using this story, the only thing changing was the name of their God and the virgin who gave birth. I urge you to look into this. You'll find a whole world of truth about religion and you should conclude that all religions derive from astrotheology and most of the stories you read in a bible are stories about our solar cycles anthropomorphized and personified into what we know today as the constellations.


    Check out documentaries such as Zeitgeist, Esoteric Agenda and Kymatica.

    IluvJesus

    Blah Blah Blah, I rather read my bible....(Jesus is Love)!

    Ms Sinclair

    That's still only 6000 years. The earth took millions of years to come into existence.

    Headless Man

    <a href="/users/3675/jayaywhy/">@jayaywhy</a>, You did a good job explaining your wisdom. But if the bible is just a man made story, that you don't believe, why do you believe a man made story 3000 years before that. We know people were quick to worship all sorts of things, thats why GOD sent his SON to show the way. Thanks for your response.

    Shadow

    That's not what jayawhy said. He said the bible story was plageairzed from writings 3,000 years previous.

    bluedeath

    Leroy, I think any lawyer will agree, eye witness testimony produces few facts. Put a bunch of people in a room and have something dramatic happen and ask for eyewitness testimony of what happened. You will get many versions of the story, some better than others, but few that are great. No, facts are not determined by eyewitnesses.

    leeroy

    Not to mention Jesus wasn't born on December 25th that is just when we celebrate Christmas, the date is just combined with an old pagan holiday, but you sure have an interesting view!


    The Bible also says a day is as a thousand years to God, I can tell you didn't research the bible parts you commented on. It just comes down to your belief system, people of the faith have it. People have constantly changing scientific opinion. It's not a fact unless you were an eyewitness. You either have faith or you don't in God or in science. Both are belief systems.

    leeroy

    The Bible also says that God is omnipresent. Meaning he views time Like a line, not as men view it. Like I said before, You either believe the Bible or you don't! I am not ten years old and I am a man of science with a higher I.Q. than most and I am a believer.

    mycatsmom

    Jay, you still haven't told us who created and designed the human body and the universe. Ane who breaths a soul into us ; and life ?

    Roger, you said that God would not send a "good person" to hell. God doesn't SEND anyone to hell, He gives everyone free will and if you choose not to believe in Him then you are choosing to go to hell. Here's a good example: You are out one day driving through a nice neighborhood and you decide that you like a certain house so you knock on the door and tell the owner that you are moving in because you are a good person. Well, you have no relationship with this person so why would they let you just move in with them? It's the same way with God. When you die do you really think that God will allow you into Heaven just because you think you are a good person? Absolutely not, because you have never had a relationship with Him or believed in Him. No one is good enough by nature to enter into Heaven's gates because everyone was born a sinner. God sent his only son Jesus to die for everyone's sins. All you have to do is have enough faith to believe this and accept Him as your Savior. Once you let God into your heart and life He sends the Holy Spirit to live in you and that's how you know without a doubt that He is real. Some people need Scientific evidence to believe that ANYTHING exists. I pray that God will convict your hearts and show you that He is real and that He loves you and wants you to spend eternity with Him.

    Ms Sinclair

    I believe we make our own "heaven" and "hell" right here on earth ( to paraphrase The Temptations). Nobody really knows for certain what's going to happen when we die. People have all kinds of theories based on their belief systems, but no one really knows for sure. Therefore I believe you should be here now.

    friendindeed

    well said.

    mycatsmom

    Hi Randy,
    I saw in your answer that you said you're 63.
    I'm 62 1/2 ......just to let you know that you're not the only ''seasoned '' writer in here.
    Juliana AKA Julie

    well Randy, scientists are still working on how things got started, up till now we know what happened immediately after the big bang.
    I'm sure that the good people of CERN will come up with an answer sooner or later.


    we accept that we don't know all the answers,yet! but we are working on answering them every day! and every day answers have new questions!


    this is the difference between a believer in a "god" and a non believer, you just accept blindly what you are told! whereas we question and learn.


    you have an infinite amount of information at your fingertips but you don't bother to search for the information you have asked for! why is this? because you either cant be bothered or you don't have the capacity to learn! most of the Atheists on here have good knowledge of your bible. but most religious folk have NO knowledge of evolution or any science whatsoever!


    Science is by no means simple! blind faith is!

    Grit Savage

    if you would like, i can copy and paste every science website onto a comment for you :-)

    Grit Savage

    Theory


    A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.

    Grit Savage

    your theory ;-)


    its a collection of stories and fables! hardly the basis for a theory!
    as for "proven evidence"! I am still waiting ;-)

    Grit Savage

    fable 

    1. a short tale to teach a moral lesson, often with animals or inanimate objects as characters; apologue: the fable of the tortoise and the hare; Aesop's fables.
    2. a story not founded on fact: This biography is largely a self-laudatory fable.
    3. a story about supernatural or extraordinary persons or incidents; legend: the fables of gods and heroes.
    4. legends or myths collectively: the heroes of Greek fable.
    5. an untruth; falsehood: This boast of a cure is a Medical fable.
    6. the plot of an epic, a dramatic poem, or a play.
    7. idle talk: old wives' fables.


    go on, Guess :-)

    Grit Savage

    it starts on the front page and finishes on the last! i would count the dust cover as well!
    i think the definition above sums it up rather well :-)

    Headless Man

    I understand most Atheist seem well educated in the way of the world and know the bible. However a theory is only a theory not a fact. Science has only proven the bible correct, show me where science has shown the bible to be wrong.
    AS far as copying and pasting don't bother (I can do that also) we will crash this site doing that.

    Headless Man

    Well, my theory is the bible is true I have summarized a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. There is no evidence to dispute it. Evidence accumulates to support the BIBLE. Definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.

    Headless Man

    What fable are you referring to?

    Headless Man

    I know what a fable is. What I ask is what fable are you referring to in the bible?

    Headless Man

    Blind faith yes, but religion is not blind faith. The BIBLE is a great science book if you would look at it that way. Many things where in the BIBLE before science discovered them.
    1 Corinthians 2:5
    So that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

    bluedeath

    Blind faith may be simple, but it also tends to be frightening causing people to do things they otherwise would not do. For that reason alone, I think it important to look at the possibility that blind faith may not be in our best interests as a society, people, or species.

    Of course things had a begining and scientist know pretty much how it all started with the big bang theroy. Approxamately 14 billion years ago there wasn't anything. Then a tiny little dot of matter that was very small, but incredibly dense exploded and in seconds the universe had begun and was millions of miles across. The problem for religion is that scientist can prove most of what they say. Do they know everythiing? No, but science advances constantly while explanations for natural events in the bible are being refuted more and more as time goes by. Now, you religious people can get as upset as you want, but it doesn't change anything. The bible is a metaphorical tome, not meant to be taken literally. As to what was before that tiny dot? Nothing, time didn't even exist before the big bang. Man, I can just see the comments coming from that statement.

    Headless Man

    How much faith you have it's amazing to have that much faith in a speck as your creator. Think about it this way, if you evolved from a speck then why aren't you a better speck why make you a living thing that will die and return to a speck. Love, Randy

    imho..I'm not to educated and hopefully not to programmed anymore but I'm not sure atheist is the right words like logical or fearless and phrases like "don't care" and "common sense"? I don't really consider myself an atheist in that I think there may be a creator but at the same time I don't consider that creator to be my judge, jury or executioner exept in the fact that this shell will expire someday. If I don't believe in said "God" my whole life but am a good person and do very little harm to anyone or anything is "God" going to cast me to hell (after a life of paying bills, war, money, so called leaders that do the opposite of logical) because I didn't believe in him/it/them? If so he/it/them are not very good "God" and I think I could do better. I do the best I can but have seen no good "God". If there is a "God" he must love war in his name? Oh that's right he's the only real "God" and must beat that into or kill the sinners praying to that other "God". The Bully God! All Hail Or Die!


    How's that? :)
    Do I get a pot of gold to make life here easier or not? Oh! there's no way to know? If only I'd answered differently I may have recieved all the gold the peasants gave the church while they live in squalor waiting for the_ir "Gods" spokes_men to toss'em a bone with smiles on their faces proving to the spokesmen how ignor_ant the peasants are and that "God" is working for them far better than real education about the nature of things. Oh Well, I hope the peas_ants wake soon to the lie. :)

    Ashligh16

    Wouldn't you consider yourself more Agnostic then Roger?

    Headless Man

    <a href="/users/3047/roger-willcoe/">@Roger Willcoe</a>,There is a way to know, you do it by FAITH then GOD will become real to you.

    Roger Willcoe

    Thanks Jay

    Roger Willcoe

    No, I think there is a creator but it will never hear me or speak. I'm not unsure or denying God's existence is provable. I think it is provable in that there are many building blocks in the universe that have always been there and alway will be here. If "A" certain "God" made them we'll never know and there for are waisting our time believing in what could be instead of what is and he must be dissapointed in the use of of his name in books to destroy some much potential in those destroyed.

    jayaywhy

    Great answer. You should check out documentaries such as Zeitgeist, Esoteric Agenda and Kymatica. Very educational.

    ole hipster

    You think quite well Roger Wilcoe!

    I find it amusing that people can look everywhere for the answers but where they ought to look, which is in themselves.. looking for 'proof' is folly, and no one has to make any case. The request demonstrates nothing but conflict. It's better to listen and understand then demand proof. When you demand proof, it means you're not listening, or understanding.

    Headless Man

    When you look in yourself you are listening to the holy spirit GOD is speaking to you, listen.

    Headless Man

    You know when the SPIRIT talks but you can ignore it until it will stop, then you must seek.

    Headless Man

    If you truly have an open mind then go to difference churches, preferably sunday school, were you are free to ask questions then you can have your educated debate. Make sure it's a Bible teaching church. Not Catholic, don't ask why.

    bluedeath

    But I am ignorant of any spirit talking to me, so I must look outside my self to end my ignorance. So please enlighten me. Thank you.

    The existence of God is not enough to explain the existence of the Universe. If it is valid to say "everything has a cause except God", it is more likely that everything has a cause except the Universe. If God doesn't need a cause because it is infinite, it is more likely that the natural Universe has existed forever and therefore doesn't need a cause.


    It is not enough to say that "God exists" as the explanation as to why the Universe exists. If a God created the Universe, then, why did it do so? God must have had thoughts - a creative impulse - to create the space-time continuum. Therefore it is the properties and thoughts of God that explain the Universe, not the mere fact that God exists. God could easily exist for all of its eternity, existing in perfection in a perfect world, without creating the Universe. So saying that God explains the existence of the Universe is not the whole story.


    “If God has a plan for the universe, which is implemented as part of his will, why does he not simply create a deterministic universe in which the goal of the plan is inevitable? Or better still create it with the plan achieved?”
    "God And The New Physics" by Paul Davies (1984)


    Unfortunately there have been no comprehensive or compelling arguments as to why God created the Universe. This is a problem that effects not only monotheistic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but also other religions such as Buddhism: Sages from all these religions have tried to explained why existence is the way it is, complete with suffering and death, but none have given a straight answer as to why any of it needed to exist at all.


    Some theists argue that God is eternal and was therefore never created. But I find this is an argument that can be used in conjunction with Big Bang theory to prove, again, that god is not likely to exist as a first cause. According to some Big Bang theories there has been an infinite number of cycles of Big Bang / Big Crunch (where the Universe ends in a big black hole after contracting, before exploding again) and that the Universe has existed forever. If it is possible for something to exist forever and not need a cause then it is likely to be the Universe, not God, and once again we can theorize that this is likely to be true because there would be no reason for god if it was true that something could exist with no cause.


    In order to create, to think, God's thoughts must be more than random. To create the universe and time, God must be able to think logically. If it can't think logically, then, the laws of the universe were simply random, and the Universe might as well be self-created in an atheistic manner. In other words, for God to exist, God's thoughts must have always been ordered in a logical manner otherwise God could never have created order from chaos.


    This means that logic is a precursor. Logic, with a few simple relations and rules that lets thought itself be ordered, must have existed independently of God's creative power. God could not have created the logic because requires logical thoughts to do any meaningful creating. This results in two conclusions:


    In theology-speak, the first cause is the description given to the creator of the universe, time, the laws of physics, etc. But it seems that in order for the first cause to be a creator-god, then that god cannot have created logic, and cannot therefore be the first cause after all. In other words, the fact that God needs to think logically in order to create means that God itself cannot be the creator of everything, only of parts of reality. In other words, there cannot be any monotheistic creator god.
    If God chose to create anything then it must have had reasons to do so. God's "will" is not random, meaningless, chaotic or thoughtless. This means that these "reasons" are dependent on pure logic and must have driven god to do its very first act of creation. These motivations, this initial logic, will have been dictating God's thoughts from the moment of God's inception. If there was no logic and no motivation, God did not create anything on purpose. In that case, you might as well admit that the Universe created itself randomly, and that no creator God was required.
    If god created anything according to a thought-out logical plan, or, if God had a desire to create anything that wasn't pure random chaos, then, god's thoughts must have been framed around logic. This logic allowed god to think and create, and, gave motivation to God. Logic must have been the first cause; but if logic is a requirement for God and existed before God could create, then God cannot be the First Cause, and therefore, creator-god theism is false, and atheism is true.


    5.2. Saying God is 'Outside' Logic


    Some theists will make assertions that god is "outside of outside", "beyond logic", "transcends logic", "not subject to logical limitations" or that "human logic is limited" and other similar argument-stoppers. Although this at first appears to throw all intellectualizing out the window, kick all theology out the front door and firmly garrison the houses of religion from debate, it actually opens up the theist to some further criticisms.


    If "Human logic" is insufficient for metaphysics then debating for the existence of God is pointless. Because it is by Human logic, thought and mentality that we arrive at the concept of God in the first place.
    If God behaves according to logic that we don't understand (i.e.: Human logic is limited) then God is still behaving according to logic, even if it is logic we don't understand.
    To say that god doesn't obey logical rules, to say that God could create a round square, for example, is to say that the abilities of god are abilities that cannot logically exist, making God into fantasy.
    "Beyond logic" is a synonym for "irrational", and admissions that beliefs are "beyond logic" is an admission that such beliefs are irrational and logically indefensible.
    If God is beyond logic, is it not true that atheists are at least somewhat more rational and logical in their beliefs? It seems to be!


    5.3. Conclusions


    If God can make plans, think logically or exist, then logic is an arch-power that encompasses God and gives reason for god's existence which appears to refute the idea that God could be the creator of logic. The God as first-cause argument is partially undermined. If there is no logical reason why God exists then it is more likely that there no logical reason why the Universe exists, and that instead of assuming that the organisational force is a 'god', it's simpler and more rational to assume that it is the universe itself. It appears that whether God exists for logical reasons or not a fundamental contradiction occurs. The only answer is that creator-gods cannot possibly exist. Atheism is more logical. This is also true if God is placed "beyond logic". And if it is said that Human logic is incapable of realizing such metaphysical truths, then this also undermines any argument that can be made by one human to another, for the existence of god.


    Theistic arguments that God is 'beyond logic' or at least, beyond human understanding, place God firmly into the territory of irrational fantasy. To retreat into the corner where logic itself is denied, god-believers have admitted that there is no logical basis for their belief. At this point, it is better to try to understand the idea of God in terms of human psychology.


    http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/universe.html

    Headless Man

    See my response..........

    Headless Man

    This is like asking what come first the chicken or the egg or can GOD creative a rock bigger than He can lift. These are circular questions that just baffle scientist and most cases can't be answered by man. Love, Randy

    mycatsmom

    to '' bluedeath ''----you get an A for the day on your philosophy paper.

    Not too long ago people couldn't explain lightnings so they said it's God getting angry.


    As science make progress more and more "mysteries" get answers, leaving those who take the Bible literally forced to deny scientifically proven facts such as evolution, the existence of the dinosaurs, the age of the universe, and many others just like the church used to deny Earth is orbiting the sun.


    Maybe we don't know everything now, but it doesn't mean that whatever question we haven't found an answer to the only answer is God. Thanks to people who weren't willing to accept the bible literally the human society made a huge progress since the end of the dark ages.

    Ms Sinclair

    The Bible was transcribed by people and altered throughout the centuries. Parts of it have been removed altogether ( see the gnostic gospels). The Bible you read is not the same book as the ancient Bible. Therefore if people are often wrong, as you said, then the Bible can also be wrong, using your own logic.

    Ms Sinclair

    Who are you to say what's inspired and what isn't? Those books were removed from the Bible by MEN as a result of their own prejudices. As you said yourself people are often wrong. How do you know that they weren't wrong for removing those books? And not all Christians agreed with their removal. Those who did not were often persecuted and many were murdered during the Crusades and the Inquisition.

    Headless Man

    Yes, people are often wrong, but the bible is not.

    Headless Man

    <a href="/users/4815/bluedeath/">@bluedeath</a>, There has been stories of the missing day that have been questioned. Lord saying to Joshua, "Fear them not, I have delivered them into thy hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee." Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy and if darkness fell, they would overpower them. So Joshua asked the Lord to make the sun stand still! That's right - "The sun stood still and the moon stayed---and hasted not to go down about a whole day!" I think if GOD wanted the sun to stand still, why wouldn't HE just stop the Universe and not mess up his system.

    Headless Man

    <a href="/users/3639/ms-sinclair/">@Ms Sinclair</a>,1-Christians, Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox all have the same 27 books in the New Testament and the same 39 books in the Old Testament.2-The only difference is the apocrypha, a collection of uninspired writings written during the "silent centuries" (400 BC - 27 AD)3-Christians reject the Apocrypha as inspired and view all these books as secular uninspired history written by men without the aid of God. 4-The New Testament never quotes from the any of the apocryphal books written between 400-200 BC. 5-Any other book you think should be in the Bible have been uninspired writings

    Headless Man

    That's fine if you still believe in them become a Catholic or Greek Orthodox your choice. Most christians don't as stated above. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    Who knows, GOD does. Love, Randy

    bluedeath

    I, like Galileo, am concerned about how the Sun stood still when the walls fell down on Jericho. Would you care to explain how the Bible (Always capitalize the Bible please, because it is a proper noun) explains the Biblical reference. I know how Galileo explained it before getting sentenced to house arrest, but I wonder if there are new ideas concerning the event I have not seen. Oh, and if the day was lengthened everywhere that day, wouldn't that have been talked about by everyone in all societies as a truly unique event?

    bluedeath

    But if the whole universe stood still, wouldn't there be references to it in other civilizations? The Chinese and Egyptians kept very good celestial records, and yet there is nothing in either civilization that even tangentially talks about it. But then again, they were unbelievers so they probably didn't notice, even though they noticed and recorded most everything else.

    I'm an atheist (sort of), but what do you mean by educated? Okay, here's my opinion, if you really want to know it:


    There are two planes to the universe. There's the physical plane, which is physical, you can see, hear, smell, taste, and feel it. That's what most atheists believe in. The second plane is the spiritual world, with spirits, feelings, ghosts, and possibly a god/Mother Nature. These two planes mold together. Such as when two people fall in love, the physical world doesn't take notice of it, but the spiritual acknowledges it by binding them, somehow.


    I guess I'm an atheist (sort of) because all the other religions I have encountered are very restricted and don't explain everything in the universe. My version does. This is just my belief, and I respect all other religions. Do not take this personally, please.

    Headless Man

    "My version does" what is your version? Explain. The bible explains everything in the universe, GOD made it. LOVE, Randy

    Headless Man

    HaHaHa, true......

    friendindeed

    Randy. Quite a battle going on. If they all dont believe in God why are they trying so hard to fight HIM

    shalom lass

    Randy, dear, I meant my belief on how the world is made up. Bad wording, sorry! <:)

    WHAT IS AN EDUCATED ATHIEST??

    Grit Savage

    I have wisdom and common sense in abundance!


    but it doesn't surprise me that insults are now being hurled from folk that are taught to turn the other cheek! :-)

    Grit Savage

    age and experience have helped me gain wisdom!
    common sense came with having a great upbringing surrounded by wonderful clever informative handy people!
    if you are so ignorant, go and read something, and keep reading.
    learning is all part of the joy of life, i am currently studying for my third degree!

    Grit Savage

    <a href="/users/1111/randy-palmer/">@Randy</a>. my mind is well and truly open! if it wasn't i would just take (what i would call) the easy route and not question anything.
    I have a very eclectic group of mates of all colours races religions and professions, and i love everyone of them to bits!


    when you have had a dinner party with a christian, catholic, american christian, muslim, buddhist and various folk from the sciences, its an awesome night :-)

    Grit Savage

    there is no need for me to go through that book again, its still the same book! i have my debates with my mates and peers.

    Grit Savage

    so now you insult my mates and peers randy! how very christian!
    if you had actually bothered to read the previous comments you would have noticed that i mention some of the company i keep!

    Grit Savage

    still laughing randy :-)

    Jeff Denoyer

    NO, IT'S AN OXIMORON. EMPHISIS ON MORON!

    Headless Man

    Have you ever heard of an educated fool, wisdom and common sense are two difference things.

    Headless Man

    <a href="/users/1831/grit-savage/">@Grit Savage</a>, I wasn't trying to insult you in any way, if it was taken that way I'm sorry. I have no doubt that you're educated well, and thats my point you start to think you're so wise that you don't need a GOD if you have common sense then take this test and keep an opened mind, Roman Road To Salvation: the http://www.new-testament-christian.com/roman-road-to-salvation.html

    Headless Man

    If you truly have an open mind then go to difference churches, preferably sunday school, were you are free to ask questions then you can have your educated debate. Make sure it's a Bible teaching church. Not Catholic, don't ask why.

    Headless Man

    Un-educated mates and peers, as far as Christianly. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    You can insult my GOD yet you expect me not to reply? Hope you have good Christian people in your group that can help you to believe, I would say I was praying for you but don't want to insult you. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    Still praying Grit....

    bluedeath

    Wisdom and common sense in abundance? Wow! Now I want to know. What makes you wise? Please enlighten me with your wisdom because I am so ignorant. I know I am ignorant because the more I learn, the more I understand how much I have yet to learn, so any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

    jayaywhy

    Someone who knows the truth.

    I can remember the day God saved me and set me free.
    Can you atheists remember the day you be came an atheists?
    nomdeplume

    From what did God save you and set you free?
    Headless Man

    Saved me from a life of sin, set me free from worry and to love unconditionally.
    What timeline looks right to you:


    UNIQUE IN ITS CONTINUITY. Here is a book the Bible:


    Written over a 1,500 year span. Written over 40 generations. Written by over 40 authors from every walk of life including kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars, etc.: Moses, a political leader, trained in the universities of Egypt Peter, a fisherman Amos, a herdsman Joshua, a military general Nehemiah, a cupbearer Daniel, a prime minister Luke, a doctor Solomon, a king Matthew, a tax-collector Paul, a rabbi Written in different places: Moses in the wilderness Jeremiah in a dungeon Daniel on a hillside and in a palace Paul inside prison walls Luke while traveling John on the isle of Patmos Others in the rigors of a military campaign.



    Here is my proof!


    Headless Man

    What else is needed, the BIBLE is UNIQUE.

    Headless Man

    Yes, but this is proof that the Bible wasn't written by people that wasn't inspired by GOD. Love, Randy

    bestway

    It is a good start Randy, but only a start.

    bestway

    Accurate knowledge of its content. Where we are in the stream of (Gods)time. How men who lived thousand of years ago could write about events we are witnessing today. How so called educated men with degrees and high IQ's can not understand that "the stones cry out" with evidence, and much more.

    @ Grit Savage In other words you can't name one fable, lie, or error.
    http://mall.turnpike.net/C/cs/mainpts.htm
    The belief that the atoms of a "Big Bang" eventually produced people ALL BY THEMSELVES (that is, without any intelligent guidance) is contrary to the well-proven Second Law of Thermodynamics, and the fundamentals of Information Theory. The universe is known to be "running down" yet evolution postulates it is "building up". Atoms to people evolution is much more a "religious belief" than a scientific fact.
    There is no reason not to believe that God created our universe, earth, plants, animals, and people just as described in the book of Genesis!


    Creation, not evolution, is true.

    Grit Savage

    creationism is just trying to justify itself by twisting Science to suit your own agenda! putting "god" in the gaps in current knowledge is just so very lazy and rather desperate!

    Grit Savage

    randy! for someone who has obviously seen some weird and wonderful stuff in your 67 years I cant believe how blinkered you are!
    Science as you (hopefully) know is peer reviewed! it ain't twisted mate and is most definitely not closed minded. whereas you and the god squad are about as closed minded as it gets!
    you are as hooked on christianity as you were whatever you were hooked on before you got religion!
    do you have an addictive personality? :-)

    Ms Sinclair

    I don't think you really answered bluedeath's question. Besides "running down" and "building up" can exist simultaneously. When one person or thing is dying another is being born. Biological science does not support creationism. We share too many physical characteristics with other species for there not to be a relationship.

    Ms Sinclair

    P.S.- According to Wikipedia scientists believe that "Neither evolution nor the growth of living things violates the second law of thermodynamics because living things are not closed systems. They have have external energy sources (eg. food, oxygen, sunlight) whose production requires an offsetting net increase in entropy"

    Headless Man

    The running down refers to the universe not an independent thing. Wouldn't the creator use the same physical characteristics in HIS plan? the main difference with man is HE gave us the breath of life (a soul).

    Headless Man

    Your not trying to twist Science to suit your own agenda, taking GOD out of everything is being closed minded. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    "addictive personality" well let me ask you the same thing?
    I have none! (never smoked, drank, or drugs) This site has been taking to much of my time! But I felt I might be able to help someone. Your closed minded to FAITH not science. You can have all the scientific knowledge in the world and still not tell me that I don't have a relationship with GOD. I know how GOD helped me over and over. I have apprehension don't need proof. Love, Randy

    friendindeed

    Randy. Keep up the good work. God is helping you

    A lot of words that say very little, GOD created the universe as our play ground.


    Life is often portrayed as spontaneously arising from some sort of "primordial soup". There it is ... quiet, tranquil, warm nutrients in a primitive sea, a lightning strike in the distance is imparting the energy of life ... soon life will be emerging to the shores... Hold it, not so fast here! To go from a barren lifeless planet to a one filled with living things, we would have to pass through a number of stages:
    EARLY ATMOSPHERE -
    For starters we need a favorable environment for life to evolve and be sustained.
    SIMPLE ORGANIC MOLECULES -
    We need a means of constructing the building blocks of life.
    LARGE MACRO-MOLECULES (proteins, DNA, RNA, etc.) -
    Some the simple molecules must be assembled into biologically useful large molecules.
    BIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS -
    Biological systems such as energy conversion must be constructed.
    LIVING CELL -
    And finally, all these molecules and systems must be assembled together to form a highly complex living cell.
    When each of these steps are examined scientifically, we see that each has tremendous problems and requires large leaps of faith to believe that they ever happened. To explain the origin of life by non-supernatural means we must have a plausible explanation for each of these steps. An artist's conception of lighting striking a sea of organic soup and then jumping to self-replicating life is woefully inadequate. In fact, it is very misleading.

    its more just a continuos now , no start or finish--think waves on top of an ocean---and i would direct the question at the physicists more than the ATHIESTS

    Progress? or Recess?

    Grit Savage

    and your constitution allows people to carry guns! very christian and peaceful.

    Jeff Denoyer

    Morals, talking about morals. If you think we are progressing, than you need to get your head out of the sand!

    Jeff Denoyer

    BRIAN, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN 1200 ANYMORE THAN I DO. BUT, I DO KNOW HOW WE HAVE REGRESSED IN THE LAST 40 YEARS. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE! YOU SHOULD PROBABLY NOT EVEN COMMENT ON THIS SINCE IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE WITHOUT. IT IS SHAMEFUL THAT OUR YOUTH ARE BEING BRAINWASHED BY RADCALS WHO HIDE BEHIND SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE WHEN OUR COUNTRYS CONSTITUTION IS BASED ON THE TEACHINGS OF OUR LORD IN THE BIBLE.

    Ms Sinclair

    I agree with PEOPLELOVER. What morals were the missionaries showing when their behavior resulted in the deaths millions of indigenous people? After all even the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill".

    PEOPLELOVER

    What a lot of rot Randy even your name can be construed as immoral. "She/ he was as randy as a march hare"

    PEOPLELOVER

    What are morals to you may be not so moral to others. The early missionaries thought the natived to have no morals because they were naked when in fact they were innocent and VERY moral Religion has been forced on people who were doing "very well without it thank you"

    Headless Man

    People without GOD have no morals, and some who claim to be christians.

    Headless Man

    Morals are in the ten commandments, read them, live them, love, RANDY.

    Headless Man

    I'm glad you try to live by the commandments but don't tell me you are able to keep them all. Without GOD in your life it's impossible, with GOD you will slip but HE will forgive again. Love, Randy

    bluedeath

    Randy Palmer, while I agree with and live the ten commandments, I do so without believing a god made them. Like many religious ideas, they are words to live by, but as the Bahai Faith would point out, there were many great teachers, but they were not gods.

    brian hawk

    Would you like to live in the year 1,200?


    If the answer is "no" then it's progress.

    brian hawk

    If you think morals in the year 1200 were any better you should learn history

    ole hipster

    I love your comeback to this question!

    ........................? CANT REALLY !

    I buried my dog down over a hill on a farm in MO 10 YEARS AGO.They lose 2 Inches of top soil every year.Somebody bought the land to build on they found the bones.They had them carbon dated found out they were 125 million years old.

    Headless Man

    Was that in dog years?

    bestway

    I like that story. Makes you realize how fallible scientist can be.

    Colleen

    Moderator
    If the story is true.

    The senceless has said in his heart 'There is no Jehovah!' Psalms 14 v 1 & Psalm 53 v 1


    Not my words but those of our grand creator


    Then again
    (Proverbs 9:10) 10 The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Most Holy One is what understanding is.


    Don't think the Almighty is very impressed with your qualifications Grit Savage. I reckon you are going to have to eat an awful lot of humble pie.


    Romans 1 v 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened.

    James I of England, who was also James 6th of Scotland (also called as the wisest fool in Christendom.)
    He was the Monarch who commissioned the King James version of the Bible. His favored theologian one Irish archbishop James Usher was the gentleman responsible for the remarkable and almost accurate chronology that you may find in the central margin of some KJ translations.
    Sadly Usher suffered from a delusion that was common at the time Namely that the earth was created in 6 24 hour days. Whereas bible texts in Hebrews chapter 4 show clearly that the human race still exists in the DAY of Gods rest or Sabbatical.


    This 400 year old error has confound both scientists and theologians ever since. This tiny piece of Bible jigsaw may help some of you to understand the confusion which is rife on this post.

    Headless Man

    If man was created on the 6 day, why wouldn't he be with HIM on the seventh?

    bestway

    Because the human race is in a condition called sin and even the most faithful and obedient had to be redeemed at great cost.

    (Job 38:1-40:5) . . .And Jehovah proceeded to answer Job out of the windstorm and say: 2 “Who is this that is obscuring counsel By words without knowledge? 3 Gird up your loins, please, like an able-bodied man, And let me question you, and you inform me. 4 Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Tell [me], if you do know understanding. 5 Who set its measurements, in case you know, Or who stretched out upon it the measuring line? 6 Into what have its socket pedestals been sunk down, Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? 8 And [who] barricaded the sea with doors, Which began to go forth as when it burst out from the womb; 9 When I put the cloud as its garment And thick gloom as its swaddling band, 10 And I proceeded to break up my regulation upon it And to set a bar and doors, 11 And I went on to say, ‘This far you may come, and no farther; And here your proud waves are limited’? 12 Was it from your days onward that you commanded the morning? Did you cause the dawn to know its place, 13 To take hold on the extremities of the earth, That the wicked ones might be shaken out from it? 14 It transforms itself like clay under a seal, And things take their station as in clothing. 15 And from the wicked ones their light is held back, And the high arm itself gets broken. 16 Have you come to the sources of the sea, Or in search of the watery deep have you walked about? 17 Have the gates of death been uncovered to you, Or the gates of deep shadow can you see? 18 Have you intelligently considered the broad spaces of the earth? Tell, if you have come to know it all. 19 Where, now, is the way to where light resides? As for darkness, where, now, is its place, 20 That you should take it to its boundary And that you should understand the roadways to its house? 21 Have you come to know because at that time you were being born, And [because] in number your days are many? 22 Have you entered into the storehouses of the snow, Or do you see even the storehouses of the hail, 23 Which I have kept back for the time of distress, For the day of fight and war? 24 Where, now, is the way by which the light distributes itself, [And] the east wind scatters about upon the earth? 25 Who has divided a channel for the flood And a way for the thunderous storm cloud, 26 To make it rain upon the land where there is no man, [Upon] the wilderness in which there is no earthling man, 27 To satisfy storm-stricken and desolate places And to cause the growth of grass to sprout? 28 Does there exist a father for the rain, Or who gave birth to the dewdrops? 29 Out of whose belly does the ice actually come forth, And as for the hoarfrost of heaven, who indeed brings it to birth? 30 The very waters keep themselves hidden as by stone, And the surface of the watery deep makes itself compact. 31 Can you tie fast the bonds of the Ki?mah constellation, Or can you loosen the very cords of the Ke?sil constellation? 32 Can you bring forth the Maz?za?roth constellation in its appointed time? And as for the Ash constellation alongside its sons, can you conduct them? 33 Have you come to know the statutes of the heavens, Or could you put its authority in the earth? 34 Can you raise your voice even to the cloud, So that a heaving mass of water itself may cover you? 35 Can you send forth lightnings that they may go And say to you, ‘Here we are!’? 36 Who put wisdom in the cloud layers, Or who gave understanding to the sky phenomenon? 37 Who can exactly number the clouds in wisdom, Or the water jars of heaven—who can tip [them] over, 38 When the dust pours out as into a molten mass, And the clods of earth themselves get stuck together? 39 Can you hunt prey for a lion itself And can you satisfy the lively appetite of young lions, 40 When they crouch in the hiding places, [Or] keep lying in the covert for an ambush? 41 Who prepares for the raven its food When its own young ones cry to God for help, [When] they keep wandering about because there is nothing to eat? 39?“Have you come to know the appointed time for the mountain goats of the crag to give birth? Do you observe just when the hinds bring forth with birth pangs? 2 Do you count the lunar months that they fulfill, Or have you come to know the appointed time that they give birth? 3 They bow down when they cast forth their young ones, [When] they get rid of their pangs. 4 Their sons become robust, they get big in the open field; They actually go forth and do not return to them. 5 Who sent forth the zebra free, And who loosened the very bands of the wild ass, 6 Whose house I have appointed the desert plain And whose dwelling places the salt country? 7 It laughs at the turmoil of a town; The noises of a stalker it does not hear. 8 It explores mountains for its pasturage And after every sort of green plant it seeks. 9 Does a wild bull want to serve you, Or will it spend the night by your manger? 10 Will you bind a wild bull fast with its ropes in the furrow, Or will it harrow low plains after you? 11 Will you trust in it because its power is abundant, And will you leave your toil to it? 12 Will you rely on it that it will bring back your seed And that it will gather to your threshing floor? 13 Has the wing of the female ostrich flapped joyously, Or [has she] the pinions of a stork and the plumage? 14 For she leaves her eggs to the earth itself And in the dust she keeps them warm, 15 And she forgets that some foot may crush them Or even a wild beast of the field may tread on them. 16 She does treat her sons roughly, as if not hers— In vain is her toil [because she has] no dread. 17 For God has made her forget wisdom, And he has not given her a share in understanding. 18 At the time she flaps [her wings] on high, She laughs at the horse and at its rider. 19 Can you give to the horse mightiness? Can you clothe its neck with a rustling mane? 20 Can you cause it to leap like a locust? The dignity of its snorting is frightful. 21 It paws in the low plain and exults in power; It goes forth to meet armor. 22 It laughs at dread, and is not terrified; Nor does it turn back on account of a sword. 23 Against it a quiver rattles, The blade of a spear and a javelin. 24 With pounding and excitement it swallows up the earth, And it does not believe that it is the sound of a horn. 25 As soon as the horn blows it says Aha! And from far off it smells the battle, The uproar of chiefs and the war cry. 26 Is it owing to your understanding that the falcon soars up, That it spreads its wings to the south wind? 27 Or is it at your order that an eagle flies upward And that it builds its nest high up, 28 That on a crag it resides and stays during the night Upon the tooth of a crag and an inaccessible place? 29 From there it has to search for food; Far into the distance its eyes keep looking. 30 And its young ones themselves keep sipping up blood; And where the slain are, there it is.” 40?And Jehovah proceeded to answer Job and say: 2 “Should there be any contending of a faultfinder with the Almighty? Let the reprover of God himself answer it.” 3 And Job went on to answer Jehovah and say: 4 “Look! I have become of little account. What shall I reply to you? My hand I have put over my mouth. 5 Once have I spoken, and I will not answer; And twice, and I will add nothing.”

    Headless Man

    Copying and pasting large text from the bible will not affect these (educated atheist) the bible is fables and stories for uneducated people to them. Maybe a personal experience would help. Love, Randy

    Headless Man

    The best testimony is telling what God has done for you. I have pages full that I left for my family and slowly is being put on here. Love, Randy

    bestway

    Thank you Randy. I merely wish to demonstrate that modern man has as much difficuly in understanding the deep things of God as the the oriental but faithful man Job did some 4,000 years ago. Like your goodself Job questioned the wisdom of Almighty, becasuse he was unaware that it was Satan who was causing his distress and not God.

    For what this may be worth, during my university days, one of the classes taken was one full year of bible literature. Additionally, many science courses including Biology, Botony, Zoology, Chemistry etc. One of the most challenging courses was Philosophy. Like many, I ran into advocates of Darwin and of course Marx. However, nothing ever caused me to sway. The more liberal, the more I gravitated towards God who I met as a teenager.


    Currently, I have a friend who is an Architect and intellectual. Over time, we have discussed his agnostic philosophy, while I have spoken of my relationship with the God of Abraham and His son Jesus.
    Neither try to pursuade the other. We respect one another. But here again, the vain approach of the anti-God establishment is hard to fathom. Our world is falling apart before us, and yet many harbor disdain for Christianity. Unfortunately, all will face God and His wrath for ignoring His obvious creation. His heavens alone leave little doubt of intelligent design. The agony of the unbeliever will go unheard by my God who has given evidence of His love for mankind. Life was meant to find God and to recognize our dependence on Him - not the fools whose pride dignify hell and a future with the father of lies - Satan.

    I have the proof, E rock, he saved my soul and set me free. Opened my eyes and heart to love.
    I haven't been convinced there's no GOD and creation is false.
    E rock

    Can you prove to me that Creationism is real, and there is a God

    The proud and FOOLISH shall boast; but in the end when they face the God of Abraham, they shall tremble and weep!

    bestway

    Is that a quotation from scripture mat or did you just say it to make you feel important.



    Top contributors in Uncategorized category

     
    ROMOS
    Answers: 18390 / Questions: 154
    Karma: 1097K
     
    Colleen
    Answers: 47518 / Questions: 115
    Karma: 953K
     
    country bumpkin
    Answers: 11099 / Questions: 158
    Karma: 811K
     
    jhharlan
    Answers: 9982 / Questions: 1130
    Karma: 745K
    > Top contributors chart

    Unanswered Questions

    442389
    questions
    711655
    answers
    521838
    users