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    Umbriel
    Karma: 258710 Registered member

    On the uncleanliness of pigs.

    In Old Testament times, the Jews regarded pigs as 'unclean', and refused to eat them. Why should this have been? My theory is that a pig is an animal of similar size to a human being, and of similar dietary requirements. Consequently, parasites which infest its guts might well find themselves quite at home in ours. Now, in those times, meat was very often cooked and eaten in less than ideal conditions, so that parasites, or their eggs, might be swallowed while still viable, and proceed to set up home. Bad news, but not a problem now.


    It's also the case that, because they are so similar in appearance and smell to out own, we tend to find the faeces of pigs much more repellant than those of horses, cattle or sheep. To adapt a trope from Jungian psychology, the pig is our physical Shadow, just as the monkey is our sexual Shadow. We react with revulsion, as is natural; but in neither case should we react with hysteria.

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    Tags: 2 years ago
    doolittle Umbriel trichinosis is also prevalent in undercooked pork....I have a few Jewish friends- I will ask them and get back to you. sorry-not to you.

    16 answers


    nomdeplume
    Karma: 156950
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     Best answer!

    Some say that pork is forbidden to the Jews because originally it was sacred to them. Similarly horse meat is not eaten in Britain as the horse was sacred ( and possibly still is) . I assume the same prohibition applies to Muslims for the same reason.

    Umbriel Personally, I rather like horse, and make a point of eating it when I go to France, because, as you say, it's virtually impossible to obtain in the UK. I still recall with great pleasure a mixed-meat sausage I bought at a motorway stop on one occasion many years ago. Its list of ingredients included horse and donkey - the only time I have evet eaten donkey meat.
    Daisy! It's not sacred, it's the fact that it isn't kosher.
    Horse is extremely bad for you, and should never be eaten. Some native Americans did eat horse. It's very hard to digest.The reports I read, I can't remember all the reasons.
    Look up Lev 11:3 and Deut 14:6 and it will explain more on the food for the Jewish people.
    ROMOS Yes..we don,t eat them either.lol..KOTF
    Umbriel To Daisy. Don't EVER use the expression Native American. It's arrant, blatant racism. As for the Red Indians eating horse, don't they just! The horse evolved in North America, and migrated to the Old World during the Ice Age. Then humans migrated to North America, and hunted horses to extinction, for food. All North American wild horses (e.eg. mustangs) are in fact feral horses, being descended from those brought over by colonists in the 16th century and later.
    Daisy! I said: native Americans, because I read it was impolite to say American Indian. As far as eating horse, it's a fact, not an insult. This is history. I am sure there are dietary foods in all races, cultures we would find very different.It's not wrong, or bad, just different. I live in a Native America town, no one would have a problem with what I said, as long as it was the truth and stating just the facts. It wasn't my personal opinion.
    Umbriel To Daisy. Whoever told you it was impolite to say 'American Indian' was, consciously or otherwise, fostering racism. They are PEOPLE, not zoo animals. The broader term Amerind embraces the people of both north and south America who were already there when the Europeans discovered it. And by the way, it's been several centuries, we're all one species, so I seriously doubt that there are very many 'pure-blooded' Amerinds left. I also strongly suspect that any you can find will be living in extreme squalour and ignorance. It's what tends to happen to people who believe in 'pure blood'.
    Daisy! American Indian may refer to:

    Native Americans in the United States
    Indigenous people of the Americas, the inhabitants of North and South America prior to the arrival of Christopher Columbus
    Indian American, an American with ancestors from India
    I copied it out of Wikipedia. Now, I was brought up to say American Indian, I will always think of them as American Indians. The Indians around me take pride in being called Indian, not Native Americans. I agree with you. Just trying hard to be politically correct. It's difficult. If you Google American Indian, it will say, Native American.
    I'm just trying to keep up.
    itsmee My mom accidently ate the meat in the refrigerator that was meant for the family dog. She ate a horsemeat sandwich and she didn't even have horseradish. She lost the sandwich almost immediately.
    Moderator
    Colleen Indians live in India. The native Americans here wish to be called Native Americans because they do not want to be confused with Indians who are from India. They do NOT want to be called red skins or red Indians as they consider that to be an insult. They even tried to go to court and force the NFL team Washington Redskins to change their name because they find it offensive. They are Native Americans or Native Indians. That is what they prefer.
    Umbriel To Colleen. What people prefer is irrelevant. If you 'prefer' to be called 'wise, beautiful and saintly' whenever you are addressed, you may conceivably be able to enforce it, but it will most certainly NOT confer those qualities upon you. I am a native Englishman, for the simple reason that I was born in England. By analogy, a native American is anyone who was born in America. Someone may claim to be a Sioux, or a Cree, or a Pueblo, or a Mohawk - whatever. His claim can be checked out, and may be true or false. But he is neither more or less a Native American than (say) Michelle Obama, in whose veins runs the blood of slaves and slave-owners, and who was indisputably born on American soil.

    Daisy!
    Karma: 80425
    Registered member

    the animals a Jew can eat have cloven hooves, and chew their cud.


    Lev 11:3, Deut 14:6


    Animals forbidden, because they lack one or both qualification. Camels, rock badger, hare, pig.


    Also in water, only fish that have scales and fin can be eaten.


    It has to be Kosher!

    Umbriel This is said to be the reason why pious Jews aren't allowed lobster. They aren't exactly fish, because they can live on dry land, though only for a short time, and not very comfortably. On the other hand, thy most definitely divide the hoof, and don't chew the cud.
    Daisy! all shell fish are considered "Not Kosher" Also birds of Prey and scavengers birds,& insects.I was surprised to see camel listed. Never thought about eating one.

    Chickens, duck, geese, are all good.
    Umbriel To Daisy. I'm also surprised at camel. There's a recipe which very rich Arabs reserve for very special occasions, goes like this: take a large fish, and stuff it with boiled eggs. Insert the fish into the body cavity of a whole skinned sheep, minus head and feet. Insert the sheep into the body cavity of a whole skinned camel. Spit-roast until cooked through. I don't know how long it takes, but it isn't a dish for a spur-of-the-moment picnic.
    Daisy! you just made my stomach do a flip!
    A camel does chew it's cud, but the hooves are not cloven. I'm surprised at the Arabs. I would have thought they would observe the same kosher laws as the Jews.
    I will not get that meal out of my mind for years.Are you in the UK?
    Umbriel Yes Daisy, I am in the UK.
    Daisy! Cool, the only country I know that measures in stones. Clever.

    itsmee
    Karma: 254376
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    I have slowly turned almost totally vegetarian. Umbriel, your post regarding pigs, the other white meat, has moved me on to the next step rather quickly.


    ROMOS
    Karma: 1977880
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    Right on!


    robertgrist
    Karma: 250621
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    I eat pork. In fact I think I have eaten just about everything on the planet along with  a lot of things that should not be eaten. I don’t recall of having eaten a penguin or tarantula. Pork…..lots of pork.  

    ROMOS Penguin,s a bird that smells of rotten fish, and tastes of F*****g really rotten fish,trust me, DON,T....KOTF.

    melandrupert
    Karma: 448495
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    Pigs are so intelgent animals

    valR horses, dogs, monkeys and crows too.
    Umbriel As you say. Also brave. If someone felt inhibited from eating them because of those qualities, I'd have to respect that.
    melandrupert valR yes they are too ...oxoxo
    melandrupert Umbriel you write so beautiful I could read and read please write a book or a short story so we can all enjoy...back to the question I am with you on this totally agree oxo
    dowsa And some Scots as well?? Hee.

    Bob/PKB
    Karma: 666775
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    SO, what is the question?   Are you buying into the Old Testament as being a valid history book?

    Daisy! I sent Colleen another email add. Hope to hear from you soon.
    Umbriel It is unquestionably a history book, though how much of it is valid in any sense is debatable. Even the bits which obviously relate to events which actually happened give the impression of having been written from a biased viewpoint, and of course, the other viewpoint is very rarely represented anywhere. But it's a good read, with lots of sex and violence.
    Bob/PKB What is the reason "the other viewpoint" is underrepresented?

    valR
    Karma: 216165
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    Umbriel, do you eat pork at all?

    Umbriel Yes, frequently. I feel a little bit guilty about doing it, as pigs are brave, intelligent animals; but it's eat or be eaten for us omnivores, and I prefer to be at the top of the food-chain.
    valR Please don't feel guilty or be consistent and feel guilty when you eat horse also brave and intelligent.

    doolittle
    Karma: 374690
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    Perhaps, but undercooked pork can get you very sick and perhaps they believed that was because they were un-clean animals.  I do not believe they knew about paracitic infections- just that some people experienced grave illness and death.

    Umbriel As you say, they didn't know about parasitic infections. We do. Progress does happen, though not as fast as many believe, and all would like.
    nomdeplume The tapeworm Taenia saginata is found in pork and beef, and its presence in the gut would be obvious at defecation. This does not expain why only pork is prohibited to Jews and Muslims. I still believe that deep in Jewish history the pig was sacred. The pig when housed in clean quarters is one of the most hygenic of animals.

    itsmee
    Karma: 254376
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    Daisy, I wrote "Indian" in a newspaper column. Editor changed it to "Native American"

    Umbriel The editor was a racist, and should have been put on final warning that if he EVER did that again, he would be fired and blacklisted.
    itsmee She was transferred to a big-time San Francisco newspaper and few months later. (Had nothing to do with our subject)
    valR Agree with Umbriel but USA is the country where Pollitical Correctness is stronger than in any country in the world. People are losing jobs for not following PC codes/rules.
    Daisy! It's being corrected everywhere. If you key in American Indian, it will explain this is an incorrect term. I try to stay current,it's hard to keep up.

    PEOPLELOVER
    Karma: 156174
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    Well from my point of view and personal experience pigs, housed correctly, are very clean animals.


    They go to the one area to defecate so keeping their main area clean.


    The fact that a lot of farmers chose to and still choose to keep their pigs in unclean enviroments is not the pigs fault.


    This cruelty as for as I am concerned probably stemmed fron the biblical "unclean" nonsense.


    As for not fully cooked being dangerious so is chicken and what about fish, shell fish even game should be cooked in full.


    Poppy3
    Karma: 76705
    Registered member

    Pigs are the cleaness animals.They have the same gastro-intestinal tract as the human being - they can also give their hearts. I have already posted about the Jewish Man who had a pig heart transplant. They were considered not fit to eat by Jewish People because as you know when pork is not fresh and eaten it causes great sickness and in those days there was no refrigeration.. Regarding their faeces - I can tell you it smells far far sweeter then human faeces. They are also very intelligent.  

    west-bus Hi dopey,you are one of the nicest ladies on the site and it is always a pleasure reading your postings so keep them coming. I wish you happiness and good health to you.
    Poppy3 Thank you so much west-bus,and for your well wishes it has been tough these past six years or so, your kindness is so appreciated - I guess I have been fortunate and worked with the most amazing people although I was told by a moderator here that people are angry with me never really done anything like this before my life was too hectic. Just a proverb - "It is a good tongue that says no ill and a better heart that thinks none". So idealistic huh. I imagine by now that perhaps dear Sir you realize I like you too and I am truely flattered my friend. Have a great year west-bus with good health and happiness too.
    Poppy3 Good as that pig giving his heart.LOL.

    jhharlan
    Karma: 1123240
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    I like pork, just finished off a pork stew as a matter of fact.  Cloven hoofs don't bother me but, eating certain animals is against my diet.  I eat nothing that swims nor sheep nor deer nor etc......

    Umbriel Interesting, and I'd like to know your rationale. I can see no moral or dietary objection to eating fish, deer or sheep if you don't mind eating pork.
    jhharlan That stuff is just gross to me, I'm a picky eater, that's all. It all looks really good though, especially lobster. Maybe someday I'll grow up....
    doolittle lobster is yummy! ignore the fact that it looks like a gigantic sea bug!

    FISH-O
    Karma: 858245
    Registered member

    Daisy is correct but I have read many health articles and otherwise stating just what you have written about pigs Umbriel.  I don't eat meat... I can't eat anything that blinks.  Pigs are as smart as dogs.  I look at pigs and I look at my boogely eyed blinking dogs... too creepy to think about.

    Benthere One more plea...before I commit to a honey-do and have to leave....please Fishlet....hang in there !

    zorro
    Karma: 119660
    Registered member

    Think about the people back then. Unhealthy , unclean, average lifespan about 45. Didnt know much about meat safety and cooking. Back then there was superstitious nonsense about alot of things. Some of that nonsense still pervails today in some religions about pork. Thats their problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pork meat.


    valR
    Karma: 216165
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    Umbriel, I agree with your answer that you packaged as a question...



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